Help with dating

[dgooch]

I have a flintlock which was originally collected by my great grandfather. I know from old newspaper clippings that he had it in his collection in the early 1930s and unless it was passed down to him, he likely acquired it between 1900 and 1910. The lock is clearly a India Pattern Type 2 so I initially figured it must be a Pattern 1809 Musket most likely made between 1809 and 1815. The lock reverse side marks show ordinance inspector No. 37 and the lock maker’s marks are present on reverse but not legible.

Unfortunately, nothing else on the musket match a Pattern 1809. The other indicators on the musket seem to predate the lock but i am not sure. Any help would be appreciated.

I have Bailey's British Military Flintlock Rifles 1740-1840, Neumann's Battle Weapons of the American Revolution, and Goldstein & Mowbray's The Brown Bess and have tried researching online but I don't see anything like this and i am at a loss.

Length - The overall length is 69 inches and the barrel length is 52 3/4 inches. I see this length in American fowlers or French Buccaneer Naval muskets but i see references to possible English wall/naval guns being made in lengths longer than the Pattern.

The side plate is a three screw flat plate (the third screw only attaches to wood). I believe the English went to a two screw plate in the early 1700’s but plates with three screws continued to be used into late 1700s on trade arms and by other countries into the late 1700s.

Trigger Guard - Every photo I see shows English military flintlocks have a lower screw to pierce the stock wrist and secure an escutcheon plate. As you can see this one does not have the lower screw. However, American musket examples from the 1750-1780s don’t show a lower screw. I also noticed the absence of a sling swivel which may indicate more like naval or wall guns.

Brass Butt plate - the style resembles flat sea service examples used 1750-1790.

Stock shape – the flat bottom of the stock resembles naval examples.

Barrel markings – Barrell markings indicate British ordinance (1) London Company Gunmakers Proof (2) Tower Arms Crown and broad arrow, (3) inspector number's mark 11 or possibly 17. I think dating the barrel marks would be my best indicator but the marks are pretty worn.

David

 

[dgooch]

Some more photos

 

[TFoley]

Thank you for your VERY fine images - they will help for sure.

 

[Sam squanch]

Looks like a restock job. Or maybe a trade gun put together from original parts?

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
What is the caliber and is it cut back for a bayonet? I notice no sling swivels.

dave

 

[dgooch]

I don't now the caliber. I have measured the barrel end with a tape measure and it is 19 to 20mm. There is no cut back at all for a bayonet. You can see the barrel opening is a bit beat up and seems thinner at the end. I don't see any indication that the barrel length was altered. The rod is wooden and tapered at one end and has been on it for at least the last 100 years. From center of the sight to the barrel end measures 3.5 inches (not sure what the pattern would call for). Pretty dirty inside but it hung above my grandfather's mantle for 40 years until he died and then 40 years in my father's attic before I got it.

 

[Sam squanch]

I’m thinking that’s a export trade gun made 1870’s to 1900. I think any military arm would have the stock trimmed back to use a bayonet. Plus the thin wall at the muzzle.