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Landsknecht Arquebus and Petronel

L & R
muzzle loading side side shotguns
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TobJohn:

Congrats on the two guns. They are both fantastic looking. Gotta love that dragon head barrel. And mounted on such an appropriate style of gun. You are going to have so much fun shooting both.
But, in the case of the Petronel, you will first need to acquire a breastplate to wear for testing. LOL !!! I'm guessing the proper hold will be wherever you can get a sight picture aligning the front and rear sights.

Rick
 
rickystl said:
TobJohn:

Congrats on the two guns. They are both fantastic looking. Gotta love that dragon head barrel. And mounted on such an appropriate style of gun. You are going to have so much fun shooting both.
But, in the case of the Petronel, you will first need to acquire a breastplate to wear for testing. LOL !!! I'm guessing the proper hold will be wherever you can get a sight picture aligning the front and rear sights.

Rick
Click to expand...
While playing around with it, a cheek hold is actually decently ergonomic and provides a good sight picture. How well that works with the gunpowder in the pan and recoil will be a whole other matter...

Like this but further back on the stock:
DG00973.jpg
 
concerning the pushbutton gun / l hadn't seen an example with the button spring on the off side - curious. The button forward of the dog works well with the lefthand second finger and l find it enables a steadier hold.
l found two examples of the 'primer-spanner-dagger' and was curious whether it could be practical and useable / it is!
 
I have a 44 cal Dutch - style snapping matchlock from the same maker - I used it at the MLAIC World's in 1989 (badly - my fault) , the maker also shot it in the gunmakers match at Friendship on my way home to NZ - all there were amazed at the speed of ignition - they're quick!! Being a smoothbore to get accuracy you need speed so my load is at least 90grs of FFFg GOEX or NZ 'Holy Smoke' Powder with a wadded and patched 430 ball - this has produced cutting groups at 50Meters (55 Yds).I used to get my Matchcord from Dixie which worked great but they seem to have stopped having it, I have tried to make my own which was only 'ok' at best - lately I've got some from Tanner Moulds in UK; that seems fine and being thicker in diameter than the Dixie cord seems to give better ignition if that's possible. Either way enjoy your "Matchies" and being a member of the "Brotherhood of the Burning Rope"
 
Bucks Co said:
I have a 44 cal Dutch - style snapping matchlock from the same maker - I used it at the MLAIC World's in 1989 (badly - my fault) , the maker also shot it in the gunmakers match at Friendship on my way home to NZ - all there were amazed at the speed of ignition - they're quick!! Being a smoothbore to get accuracy you need speed so my load is at least 90grs of FFFg GOEX or NZ 'Holy Smoke' Powder with a wadded and patched 430 ball - this has produced cutting groups at 50Meters (55 Yds).I used to get my Matchcord from Dixie which worked great but they seem to have stopped having it, I have tried to make my own which was only 'ok' at best - lately I've got some from Tanner Moulds in UK; that seems fine and being thicker in diameter than the Dixie cord seems to give better ignition if that's possible. Either way enjoy your "Matchies" and being a member of the "Brotherhood of the Burning Rope"
Click to expand...
"Who is this guy Lazzlo?" as Humphrey Bogard says in Casablanca . Sounds like a matchlock nut to me. I've met these types. Pitiful really I think its the close handling of the match cord it affects their brain presupposing the had much of one to start with .I mean we are talking utterly obsolesant guns here only one step behind the bow and two steps behind naughty words at 40 paces. I suspect its a Yorkshire man their known for their ingrained thrift ,They make the Scots look like positive spend thrifts .Poor soul as there is no known recovery .
Rudyard's view on the matter
 
Last edited:
I currently have only 2F powder so I was planning on shooting that in the two arquebuses this week. After measuring, the snapping arquebus is .40 cal and the petronel is .50 cal. I am planning on using powder, ball, and tow. Does anyone have powder load recommendations?
 
TobJohn said:
I currently have only 2F powder so I was planning on shooting that in the two arquebuses this week. After measuring, the snapping arquebus is .40 cal and the petronel is .50 cal. I am planning on using powder, ball, and tow. Does anyone have powder load recommendations?
Click to expand...
Dear Tobjohn In just such similar pieces .I loaded 2&1/4 dram fine stuff & a 490 ball lightly patched while the 40 Ide go about the same only a felt wadded or a naked 400 cal ball short barrels cant burn big charges anyway ide start with 1& a half dram see how you go .often the given bore will in practice be under or over the nominal caliber. Like the two" Dutch muskets" Bucks county wrote of" where Dixey 44 cal. Have fun. more later
Regards Rudyard .
PS Oh I made contact with Sam
 
Is it a bad idea to use the horn tipped ramrods to load the guns? I know that’s the obviously historical method, but I’m not aware of a modern problem with it, like ruining the horn.

As a warning for anyone getting a petronel: range bags are not designed to fit them. I got one that was designed for a Gucci-ed out ar-15, so the space for a scope, large mag, and accessories on the gun just barely allows my small petronel to fit.
 
TobJohn said:
Is it a bad idea to use the horn tipped ramrods to load the guns? I know that’s the obviously historical method, but I’m not aware of a modern problem with it, like ruining the horn.

As a warning for anyone getting a petronel: range bags are not designed to fit them. I got one that was designed for a Gucci-ed out ar-15, so the space for a scope, large mag, and accessories on the gun just barely allows my small petronel to fit.
Click to expand...
Certainly not for patched round ball. Shoving wadding down the bore would be OK, depending on the quality of your horn tip.
I have a beautifully carved horn tip on my long Fowler gun. I don’t use it because for whatever happens it can’t be replaced.
 
PathfinderNC said:
Certainly not for patched round ball. Shoving wadding down the bore would be OK, depending on the quality of your horn tip.
I have a beautifully carved horn tip on my long Fowler gun. I don’t use it because for whatever happens it can’t be replaced.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice! I was going to do ball with tow, but I have a short brass tipped ramrod for another gun I can use, just to be safe
 
Yes, I once broke a nice turned (hollow) horn tip on a fowler, on my 1st flint smoothbore (hence my screen name). I was soooo enamored with it that I recall that I shot up about 8 to 10 pounds of powdah worth of roundball loads through her in judt my 1st year of ownership!
 
As a fitter of horn tips ,its generally stag tines I used my so fitted rifles for years with only once in a fall break the wood .My trips seldom less than a week . But not of course loading continually .Coincidently Ime fitting a horn nose cap to a very old German percussion rifle today just solid tip of cow horn, older style guns I used stag Horn forend tips I basically carve to suit but the Horn Pressers offererd roasted hot horn pressed into blank tips .Prior to plastic a lot of items Butt plates , Knife, scales any thing now formed of plastic was made by the Horn Pressers .It was quite an important Sheffield trade . Early powder flasks where commonly of pressed 'Lant horn 'And considering the rise of the Hollowware trades the Powder flasks of metal sort of came naturally as a offering .If its still there there was a public house called" The Pressers Arms ".Mr Scarlet of Scarlet & Whiteing the last horn scale cutters to the Cutlery trade told me that. & on West Street I saw the old pressers workshops. The Cutlers J. E .Middleton & sons once used the shop & they told me of the leg vice type rows of dies that hot nye melted horn was place in the press mould then tightened up till it cooled off. so round & round the probably a bit' pongy 'rows of presses they went .They the Sons being into muzzle loaders recognized the fore end tip blanks still in drawers there all gone now. I was offered the firm but it would be too tyeing and by then the' little mesters' small shop cutlers where much in decline. But I bought Knives , Blades, 'Crooked' knives , Indian Awls (The small change of the fur trade ) but the small back alley Smithers & hand forgers & grinders all played their part same as the horn Scale cutters & Pearl cutters witch last was a dangerous calling as pearl dust has hooks where as the horn dust didn.t .I once asked old Mr Whiteing" Did he mind the dust ?" He replied "No it just made soup " he was 90 at the time . I knew hand cut special file makers & Brass founders . who did my yellow brass gun mounts .I was some times there in a pour and it was a smoke filled little 'Dantes inferno' of smoke . they wore a Jesse James like face mask & shut the Georgian windows lest a squall come up as they poured It gave us a headache the 'Ague' you could call it . they did it years gave them a twitch but didn't kill them .This is' Memory Lane 'Stuff I bet its all OSH BS these days . I wasnt the only 'Factor' of Cutlery but I doubt there are the' Little Mesters' nowadays . From Chaucers " He wore a Shefield Thitle in his hose " To the last days of such firms. I expect they still have the ' Master Cutlers' & the Cutlers Hall but No REAL cutler got in the door it was big steel works executives gave them selves grand titles instead of condeming the shoddy mass produced firm like Rickarts a German who ruined the trades name and all the REAL cutlers where working in antient garret's and back streets with a Communist Council only to eager to turn there places into car parks .

If I sound Bitter its only because I am. I saw the trade die and as a Factor and a native born if now half a world away & I shall never see the City again. least I don't expect to
Ranting Rudyard
 
Rudyard made the 'horn' tipped ramrod on my 1570's Dutch Matchlock (he made that too) and that was mid 1980's and it's still in ace condition. I really treasure the gun and my friendship with 'Rudyard'. Actually the tip is really a sleeve and the rod timber comes right to the end with a tiny cross wedge to hold it all together. Nice work
 
Horn tips on rammers should last as long as anything if well fitted.
I have originsls that still work. And home mades that work.
Antler is tougher if you are making early style, but white doesn't always look right in all cases.
 

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