Looking to get my first flintlock rifle

[SharpsburgEnfield]

I usually hunt with a percussion muzzleloader. Typically my 1858 Enfield which is a Parker Hale Repro. Last year I looked for flintlocks but they were old junk people were selling for way too much money. I am looking for a rifle to hunt White Tail deer on the Potomac River in Sharpsburg, Maryland. Just deer no Bears, Lions or Tigers . A local gun shop/ gun smith that opened up two months ago has a few for sale and this time they aren't half bad. First for sale is a .45 Caliber Thompson Center Hawken made in 1970s. Its pretty dang clean and comes with 3 flints, I looked down with a bore scope and there is old storage crud in the barrel but nothing too bad, its on the rack for $375. Second for sale is a .45 Caliber ArmiSport Kentukian made in 1977. Bore is nice but the metal finish on the barrel is gone in some spots as it was only browned not blued. This one is on the rack for $300.00. Third is a .54 Caliber Thompson Center Renegade made in 1981. Bore has some old oil in it and some scratches in the wood stock. Definitely had some use as the frizzen has got some deep scratches in it. Rack price is $450 for this one. Last two the shop had was a 1980 World's Fair edition .50 caliber Thompson Center Hawken in 8/10 shape for $750 and an Investarm .54 Flintlock rifle date of mfg. and model unknown and no rear sight ( its missing but one can be put back on) for $400, rifle is also 8/10 condition. I like those Kiblers but I have never used a Flintlock so I want to get one to start on and If I like it I will get a Kibler Colonial. If I don't like it well I will go back to my percussion. Just want something to get broken in on first and then move up as a Kibler would definitely be a waste if I bought it and didn't enjoy using a flintlock. I dont have any "real powder" I used what little I have left and now only have pyrodex so I will have to get some powder probably 2F or 3F so I can use it in the pan and barrel. I also have no round balls or patches as I use .577 Pritchett balls I cast and make into paper cartridges I even make the little Pritchett bullet plug too... lol. Also on a side note that shop has a .36 Cal Flintlock Thompson Center Hawken and a .56 Cal smoothbore Renegade Thompson Center percussion. The shop owner said the .36 was a Green Mountain Custom order to fit the Thompson Center Hawken and the .56 the shop owner said he can change out the breech plug and make it into a flintlock. Is that possible to change the breech plug from a percussion to a flintlock on a Thompson Center ? Just asking as I was deciding on which one would make a good small game flintlock. Thanks to everyone who replies to this thread.

 

[Phil Coffins]

The key to any flint lock fire arm is the lock. If it doesn’t work well then you will not have as good an experience starting out. Each of the guns you noted could be an exceptable way to start. For a sure fire good start with a flint would be a Woodsrunner in 50 calibre. Plane wood will shoot as well as fancy. If you decide you are not enjoying a flintlock then it will be easy to sell at or above the price.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@SharpsburgEnfield, The T/C breech plug can be changed out to convert the percussion T/C to flint lock ignition. The big concern is does the T/C lock provide the sparks needed for reliable ignition? Ranges will be short up east in Maryland. The Renegade in 56 smoothbore would give you a gun that would shoot ball for deer and the capability for shot for small game. The cost for conversion to flint would be almost the cost for the 45 caliber T/C on top of the cost for the Renegade. The World's Fair Edition T/C is no better than the 45 caliber T/C and the special edition holds no premium value to me. I would be more inclined to put my money into the 56 caliber Renegade and if the price was reasonable, the T/C Hawken with the 36 caliber barrel. @Phil Coffins is correct. All of the guns mentioned would be an acceptable way to start if the locks throw a shower of sparks into the pan.

 

[Thingamajiggy]

Wow, you cover a lot of ground there. I have and had shot quite a few TC and Lyman (investarm) guns over the years and are solid, functioning and reliable guns. Would think any in .45 or .50 will do you right for deer. As stated, the .56 smoothie cost to convert may price it out of range. It can be shot with shot or PRB so is definitely better at a 1 gun kind of thing. The .36 is a fine small game caliber.

 

[SmoothboreMurph]

That .45 Thompson Center would be the rifle I would choose. They didnt make the .40 and .45 cal hawkens as long as the .50 and .54 hawkens. I would say a definite nope to the "Worlds Fair" .50 caliber. Although I have never seen one as a flintlock they are just a rifle with an extra barrel stamp. Also I would stay out of the Investarm. If there are parts missing then it probably is a sign of poor care on the part of the previous owner. The Armi Sport Kentukian might be nice too but they have a straight barrel so they are gonna be a bit heavy. Since you dont have powder and ball .45 is a good choice as that rifle wont be hungry. I like smoothbores and that .56 cal as a smoothbore is an excellent idea. I converted one to flint back in 2019. I had to buy a flintlock breechplug for a 1" barrel they can had off of ebay or like I did find a rough bore barrel and take its plug. Another thing you could do if you want .56 caliber or .58 caliber smoothbore you can buy a .54 caliber Renegade flintlock and send it to Bobby Hoyt to have the barrel opened up. Other than that the .36 rifle is an excellent choice. Short and light which is what you need to pick out squirrels if they jump to the next tree.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

Not knocking the TC flintlocks as I've no experience with them but I would not base whether or not I bought a flintlock from a quality maker on how a used, 40 year old, mass produced specimen known to have teething issues performs.
My experience was going from more recent Pedersoli made flintlocks to better stuff (Kibler Colonial) and there is no comparison in quality or performance of the lock or feel of the rifle itself.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

Buy quality the first time. Thats my recommendation. Its like a quality bait caster fishing reel vs a Walmart brand bait caster. Both will work fine but one your going to be picking backlashes out, getting angry, and respooling line all day vs enjoying fishing. The same is true with flintlocks, reliability is very important. If its not igniting and going boom at a fast rate, no spark, flash in pans all day its no fun at all and effects your confidence and shooting ability. I'd save up the extra money and buy something a tad better in quality. TC's are good guns but they also 40 plus years old. I went from a TC to a Pedersoli Frontier also known as Cabela's Blue Ridge, a few hundred dollar increase in price was a huge difference in quality, add a few hundred more your in a used custom made gun, a few hundred more your in a new Kibler, a few hundred more your into a custom made gun. If you can put away a few hundred a month and in 6 months you have enough for something very nice. But I don't know your budget.

 

[Murphinator]

I think some people are missing the point, that being spending that few "extra" hundred on the better rifle. I like what SmoothboreMurph says. The .45 T/C or the .45 Kentuckian are good starts. The .45 T/C Hawken (T/C is the abbrev. for Thompson Center) should have a 1:48" twist barrel meaning you could use some .45 cal conicals if you dont think the 128gr .440 or the 132gr .445 balls will hit hard enough. I have a Hopkins and Allen Underhammer in .45 caliber and I use a 128gr .440 ball with .015" patch and 75gr of 2f powder and I havent had a botched harvest yet. I put that ball in the vitals behind the shoulder and those deer just fold up. Last year I shot a doe at 60 yards and she spun in a circle and dropped. I would assume that Kentuckian is either 1:56" or 1:66" twist making it a round ball only rifle. I would go for that .45 Hawken. Also both SmoothboreMurph and Loyalist Dave bring up good points on that .56 smoothbore wether you convert the breechplug or just ream out a .54 flintlock. You'll get the same 50-60 yard performace with a larger ball and the gun can be loaded with shot to take small critters like squirrels, whistlepigs, rabbits and even Turkeys. I wouldnt try my luck on Geese though. Dont let that .36 slip if anything get the .45 and the .36.... my two cents.

 

[Mulebrain]

The Kibler colonial is a great rifle, however for hunting go for at least a .54

My colonial is a tack driving machine in .50, however it’s heavy.

Now if your hunting from a stationary position, and you can drive close etc

 

[Mike in FL]

Buy that T/C .36! I assume it is a Seneca? The worst decision of my life was selling mine. You can always get a flintlock.

 

[BigAl52]

Agree with @Phil Coffins said. Ive done that starter gun route with flintlocks. Either the lock isnt quite right or its hard on flints. Get the Kibler Woodsrunner in 50 or 54 cal. Its a nice gun with a good lock. I know if you dont like it and decide to sell it ,it will sell easily on here.

 

[user 34300]

IF you want the best made, best value, most reliable, most practical rifle for deer hunting get a Kibler woods runner in 54 caliber. If you do a good job finishing it you can sell it for more than you paid. I sold my first SMR for $1500 over my cost and regretted it later. IF you have the ability to follow video instructions, some manual dexterity and coordination you can not go wrong.

The others may save you a few bucks, but you will pay later when it is not reliable. I don't get the TC love affair. Nostalgia? I had a TC flintlock, shot the heck out of it. I was a teenager and did not know better. The lock was a POS.

As far as tradtiitons, CVA, investarms and the other bottom feeder price point guns, I feel the same way. They are made cheaply to a price point. They are not made with reliability in mind. Just good enough is all. In a flint lock that is not good. In a cap gun it doe not matter so much.

I had a cabalas Hatfield. I did not think much or it. Goofie styling and an unreliable lock. I bought a replacement lock. I restyled the stock. I sold it to a friend for a bargain basement price.

K I B L E R

He says in a whisper.

 

[pilot]

I have a T/C Hawken flintlock and a Kibler SMR. I have replaced the lock on the T/C with a Siler and it works far better than the original lock. It still does not fire as fast as the Kibler. A slow lock is very frustrating to hunt with. Get the best rifle you can afford.

 

[hanshi]

I've owned, shot and hunted with a few imported rifles and they were very good; however they were all percussion. I cannot speak for any factory flintlock as I've never fired one. The Kibler kit, especially the Woodsrunner, in .54 would be my dream rifle if I didn't have more flintlocks than I can use.

 

[Thingamajiggy]

The cheapest Kibler, all the rage if you can't tell, is 1200 for the gun that you have to finish and assemble. Add on a couple tools and finishing material if you don't have, thats 800+ more than prices you quoted, quite a bit if your means are limited. I don't understand all the knocking guys do of production guns, most function well and shoot as good as some custom guns. I hunt our after Christmas flintlock season here in PA and you run into large groups of guys doing drives. 8 of 10 are carrying traditions, TC, Lyman or CVA and have been for years. Those guns are very capable of doing their intended job and have been for 40+ years. Of course if you have the means, then a custom or Kibler would be the way to go, just ordered my first kibler but I wouldn't overlook any of the guns you've listed that you found if that's all you can do right now.

 

[stephenprops1]

Over the years I have owned and used several Thompson Center percussion rifles. Every one of them performed well. However, about 2 years ago, I acquired a Pedersoli, Missouri River, Hawken percussion rifle in 45 caliber. It outperforms every T/C rifle I have ever owned. (Of course, it cost 3 times as much as any of the T/C's.) Last weekend I sold my last T/C rifle at Swapper's Day in Johnstown, Ohio.

 

[Jasonb1911]

I'd go with the .45 TC. It's a really good deal in my opinion and it gives you opinions for hunting since it can use patched round balls or Maxi Balls. I'm assuming that the three flints are the TC sawn flints that last way longer than regular knapped flints so that is a great value. TC locks work just fine and will serve you well. I think it's a great idea to buy a cheaper rifle too figure out if flint is something you want to pursue. You can always sell that TC for what you paid for it, so you definitely aren't risking losing money for trying it.

 

[Surfinator58]

I'd go with the cheapest Thompson Center they are bomb proof lasts forever mine crushed flints prematurely and I wanted more period correct so I went to India made muskets I enjoyed working on them getting them to shoot correctly and for a quarter of the price of most custom guns they are well suited to my needs

 

[MAC1967]

I bought a used Lyman Great Plains in flint (LH) years ago . . .. and it performs very well. I have taken two deer with it, .50 cal - one shot each. I have two custom rifles, a TVM & a Jim Chambers . . . they have their advantages, particularly in style, but honestly, for a hunting rifle, I don't think the advantages are worth the extra cost for just a hunting. As for style, the GPR is pretty good. . . better than many other factory rifles. The GPR was my first flintlock and it wasn't that hard at all to get used to or range ready for the woods.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

If its a brand name its 3rd world production methods.
Ive seen a lock Id keep yet. My firs flinter was a Petrosory 1803.
The lock lasted 8 shots.
Now it has a Rifle Shoppe lock I made from parts.
I gave it to an EX, and she is still shooting it.
I gave it to her in 1998.