Brown Bess -Why

[JCKelly]

I have two original brown Bess The stock of the older uses more wood than does the 2nd Model Brown Bess. I like both, and indeed both use a lot more wood than does the Italian "copy". Shoot what fits you. Personally I like the looks of the Brown Gun.

 

[FlinterNick]

Why do folks love the Brown Bess? Lots of reasons, here’s 10.

1. If you want a big long gun, the Brown Bess is your musket.
2. The .75 caliber bore, can handle various loads.
3. The musket is very attractive in almost any variation.
4. Value, a Brown Bess reproduction holds its value, since the 1980’s Brown Bess muskets by pedersoli and Miroku used, have almost tripled in value compared to their relative cost.
5. Fun to build.
6. Lots of historical records for reproductions, plenty of resources are available to recreate this wonderful musket making recreation a real possibility.
7. Shooting a Brown Bess takes you back in time, its an experience every time you shoot it.
8. Easy to maintain, and a very sturdy durable musket.
9. There are numerous variations, if you don’t like one pattern, you can find that one that fits your desire or comfort.
10. Has a catchy name, Brown Bess is catch.

 

[Musketeer]

That's my Pedersoli Bess in my avatar. I freely admit it was a beauty contest for me and Bess is a much comelier and more elegant lady than her French counterpart.

 

[DuncNZ]

It helps with sight picture. When firing shot the ideal sight picture for a shooter is nothing but a bead and smooth barrel (or rib). This is why you don't see a lot of sporting shotguns advancing from the traditional bead sight - less is more in the shotgunning world. Anything extra that your eye can get distracted by can be an excuse for a miss.

I "stack" the bands on my Ped 1777 ano IX Charleville so that one band is just below the other and the front band is just below the sight , and the whole thing is lined up with the tang screw , it is easier than it sounds , and that gives me a consistent sight picture , consistent enough to win competitions , which is why I have it as a target gun .

 

[DuncNZ]

Perhaps it is a brick, but it is a brick that can be filed down or deleted without impeding core function of the gun. If you removed the bayonet lug on a bess, you simply cannot mount a bayonet. If you remove the barrel bands from a Charleville, you will create a self disassembling firearm.

Overall, the bess is closer in look and feel to a Fusil or trade gun than any of the 2 or 3 band muskets of the period.

Filing down the sight/lug is a no no for National/International competition , and if you want a Fusil or Trade gun get a Fusil or trade gun . I have a Caywood Wilson Chiefs grade trade gun and I just love shooting it . It is light portable , comes up well for snap shooting etc . The muskets of the age were meant to be held level and volley fired ,

 

[Mitch97]

Filing down the sight/lug is a no no for National/International competition , and if you want a Fusil or Trade gun get a Fusil or trade gun . I have a Caywood Wilson Chiefs grade trade gun and I just love shooting it . It is light portable , comes up well for snap shooting etc . The muskets of the age were meant to be held level and volley fired ,

You're missing the whole point that I am making in regards to this thread. I agree, if you want a fusil or trade gun - then buy that. The question that was asked was why they are so popular. My original comment in the thread explained that it was a common gun because it was set up better as a utilitarian musket from the start (both now and in historic context). It was also far easier to get your hands on a genuine Bess or colonial made copy back in historic times. If you lived in the thirteen colonies then you were a British subject and you likely had limited access to french arms - if at all. Thus we have a prevalence of Brown Bess both then and now.

My comments surrounding sight picture are in regards to shot, not round ball. I've shot many hundreds of rounds of skeet in my life and probably 2-3 thousand birds - if I had to pick between the two for small game or skeet, it'd be the Bess 10/10 times. I think people are projecting their favoritism for the french guns and misinterpreting my comment as an assault on their fine french piece.

Its an undisputed fact that most of the french built 3 band muskets (especially those with a blade sight) are more accurate for most people when shooting round ball. That is not in dispute, sir. I fail to see how this has been misinterpreted by 3 people now

 

[Coinneach]

Never much liked the French…

There agin them Quebecois gals are very likeable.....

 

[Coinneach]

I'm surprised that no-one to this point has mentioned the Calibre difference between the French Charleville .69cal, and British Bess .75cal.

Consider this, a Brit Soldier or Colonial Militiaman could use the French .69cal Balls in a pinch from Battlefield pick ups, but the French Troops, Partisan Militia and their Indian allies armed with Charlevilles couldnt use the Bess .75cal Balls.

 

[DuncNZ]

I too would pick a Bess as the more versatile and better gun , but not the commercially made Bess's available today .
The Long Land pattern musket is part of my family history , Family members at Culloden would have used Bess's against other family members armed with swords , my distant family member at Waterloo was on a horse so he used a sword and pistols . The Bess was standard for New Zealand's early settlers , both for self defense , food gathering and trade .

I believe the way to make shot for Military musket is to flatten a ball with the back of an axe or somesuch , then chop the lead into small cubes and load it over wadding with more wadding on top . I have read of swan shot being used in muskets , I am not quite sure how it was made , Captain Cook seemed inordinately fond of shooting troublesome natives with swan shot during his round the World voyages of exploration .I suspect he thought he was being humane .

A British Battalion of 500 men could be expected to fire 1500 shots in 1 minute .
The Prussians did some tests and found that a battalion of men firing at a target 100 feet long and 6 feet high scored 60 % hits at 75 yards , 40% at 150 yards and 25% at 225 yards .
Colonel George Hanger wrote in 1814 . A soldiers musket , if not exceedingly ill bored ( as many are ) will strike the figure of a man at 80 yards , it may even at a hundred , but a soldier must be very unfortunate indeed who shall be wounded by a common musket at 150 yards , provided his antagonist aims at him ; and as to firing at a man at 200 yards with a common musket , you might as well fire at the moon .
In the Napoleonic wars at Talavera it was reckoned that in half an hour 1300 French were either killed or wounded but it had taken 30,000 musket balls to achieve that . 3,765,000 rounds were fired by Wellington's army at Vitoria and caused 8000 French casualties , 1 hit/459 shots . The Captured
Charleville ammunition , being a smaller caliber , was used by the British when their own ammunition was running low .

There seems to be some confusion on India pattern guns made for the East India Company and used by the British troops in the Napoleonic wars and later, and modern Indian BB,s which are replica Brown Bess's made in India today to a fairly low standard .

 

[frankie]

I see a lot of you folks use Brown Bess's , nothing wrong with that ,They are fine Muskets. The question is why ? I know the Bess was used in by some American troops in the Revolution .
The Charleville's are more authentically American as they were used by the French allies and are the firearm which was copied/ evolved into US 1816 flintlock musket and on to the the Springfield smoothbore and rifle muskets . Surely the Committee of Safety musket would be more HC for Revolutionary war or 1812 war reenactors . I have sold 2 different COS muskets , both were well made, both were different enough to be easily differentiated from a Bess . Me? I'll keep shooting my 1777 Charleville . Just wondering .View attachment 121124

Really nice cyfinger

 

[FlinterNick]

Original Charleville muskets were in .72 caliber.

french muskets had some advantages over the bess, the model 1777 year 9 musket used interchangeable parts. French muskets on average weighed 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 pounds less than a Brown Bess. French muskets were much more serviceable in the field than british muskets.

the bess caliber was its biggest advantage

 

[DuncNZ]

The Potzdam Prussian mod 1809 musket , used at Waterloo by the Prussians looked very much like a Charleville but was .75 so it could use the Bess ball or at a pinch fire the French ball

 

[DuncNZ]

The quality of modern manufacturing , especially the barrel , should make whatever musket you chose much more accurate than the originals

 

[Jay Templin]

I understand your point, and it's a good one. But playing devils advocate, the bayonet lug on a Bess looks like a brick on top of the barrel when you try to use it as a sight. The 1768 musket mods also have a bayonet lug on top, but the little blade on top of the band gives a considerably better sight picture. The 1766's and earlier put the lug on the bottom side of the barrel. Of coarse it's a moot point as I can't get my face down far enough to use it anyway. One exception is an original 1728 musket I have which fits me perfectly.

Point of order. The King’s Arm does not have a “bayonet lug.” She has a front sight that happens to help lock the bayonet in place. Every original reference I have seen in 30+ years working in museums has used the term “sight” and I haven’t seen a one call it a bayonet lug.
Now, that French poodle shooter has a bayonet lug in addition to the sight. My only problem with the Charlevilles and St. Étiennes is that the rearmost band is exactly where my left hand goes, and I have the devil of a time aiming one because every time I shoulder them, I grab the band and it slides forward.
Jay

 

[DuncNZ]

All these arms , no matter what type of age were made to fit the average person of the day . The bands on my Froggy gun are on so tight I just never try to move them .

 

[lexington1]

Point of order. The King’s Arm does not have a “bayonet lug.” She has a front sight that happens to help lock the bayonet in place. Every original reference I have seen in 30+ years working in museums has used the term “sight” and I haven’t seen a one call it a bayonet lug.
Now, that French poodle shooter has a bayonet lug in addition to the sight. My only problem with the Charlevilles and St. Étiennes is that the rearmost band is exactly where my left hand goes, and I have the devil of a time aiming one because every time I shoulder them, I grab the band and it slides forward.
Jay

But you know what we're talking about, right?

 

[Trooper]

Never much liked the French…

Ditto here, especially the québécois. I ended up stationed there and into a French speaking armoured unit. I hated it with a passion. Thank God I’m in Alberta now!

 

[Artificer]

Original Charleville muskets were in .72 caliber.

french muskets had some advantages over the bess, the model 1777 year 9 musket used interchangeable parts. French muskets on average weighed 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 pounds less than a Brown Bess. French muskets were much more serviceable in the field than british muskets.

the bess caliber was its biggest advantage

Whoa, Nelly. Grin. I'm going to have to ask you to explain that more fully.

I agree the French were the first to really try to make interchangeable parts muskets in their national armories, but they did not succeed in the 18th century.

Gus

 

[oreclan]

I own a reproduction of both. I have owned a Japanese (I made from a kit.) as well as an Italian short land British musket .sold them both. Have a custom long land made by Jim Everet and a 1728 French model that I and Jack Olsleager modified from a Charleville 1763 model. I use the later in re-enacting most because it is lighter, and also covers the F&I and AWI time periods. I also used it in the Battle of New Orleans bicentennial. Just my personal preference and opinion.

 

[1971fx]

Brown bess found in local gun shop Davenport NY