Correcting Uberti Short Arbors?

Smokey Plainsman · Aug 8, 2020

Can anyone give some good, permanent recommendations for fixing the short arbors on the Uberti cap and balls?

I don’t have access to a drill press or anything crazy. Maybe it’s best to just send it to a gunsmith? I am heavily interested in an Uberti fluted cylinder 1860 Army .44 but do not at all like the wonky wedge and arbor setup they have. I experienced that issue several years ago on one of their Navy’s.

Thanks!

-Smokey

Phil Coffins · Aug 8, 2020

This applies to any Colt cap and ball.
https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=55544.0

hawkeye2 · Aug 8, 2020

An online search will bring up a lot of ways to fix the problem. Some are better than others and they range from simple to complex, temporary to permanent. Something as simple as a washer of the correct thickness dropped down the hole will work but you need to remember to put the washer or spacer back everytime you have the barrel off. I know of one smith who uses epoxy as that leaves the end of the arbor free to drill and tap for a set screw which is then used to adjust how far the wedge goes in.

William P Sepessy · Aug 8, 2020

If you want the quick temporary fix, as mentioned a washer will work . Since you said the gun was an Uberti 1860, a 5mm flat washer works well. 6mm for the Dragoons and Walkers. You may need two or may have to file one thinner for a perfect fit. I like this as it allows me the liberty to easily change things in the future if desired. I just smear a little thick lube or something tacky on the washer and drop it down the hole where it stays put pretty well. A whole box of washers is pretty cheap and a few extras are easily carried to the range in the shooting box.
I know Uberti should fix this issue, but the worst gun I have with a short arbor is a 1996 Pietta 51 Navy. It's nowhere near bottomed out.

sourdough · Aug 8, 2020

About a dozen years ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger published (online) treatises concerning tuning both the Pietta and Uberti Colt repros. They are available to download free here:

https://archive.org/download/PettiFogger_Files/TOR Posts pdf/
I prefer the .pdf versions. The Pietta is a 2-part series, the Uberti is a 4-part series. Give them a good perusal so as to determine if you feel comfortable with any of the modifications.

I don't care for any permanent arbor modifications on my revolvers, so I concur with the others about using washers. I have a stock of .002" stainless shim washers to use in the arbor recess (1851, 1860, and 1861), and the hole is about the size of a toothpick. I determine how many washers are needed to bottom out the arbor end in the recess (there is a process for this shown in the Pettifogger files), place them on the toothpick, place 2 small pieces of tape on the toothpick to hold the washer stack together, and apply superglue to the washers. After it cures I cut off the toothpick ends flush with the end washers which eliminates loose washers. This way, if you ever sell the revolver no one will be any the wiser that the problem has been corrected, and the "stack" can be removed any time.

Hope this helps!

Regards,

Jim

Gun Tramp · Aug 9, 2020

Smokey Plainsman said:
Can anyone give some good, permanent recommendations for fixing the short arbors on the Uberti cap and balls?

I don't buy the "short arbor" theory, never will. For those that do, please study the drawing on page 62 of A History of the Colt Revolver. The "issue" bemoaned by Uberti owners is due to the relationship of the key (wedge) and arbor.

Bob McBride · Aug 9, 2020

I think Duelist1954 has a video on his channel where he corrects a short arbor with a brass spacer of some sort. I don’t recall his exact procedure but I did his repair on one years ago.

Smokey Plainsman · Aug 9, 2020

Gun Tramp said:
I don't buy the "short arbor" theory, never will. For those that do, please study the drawing on page 62 of A History of the Colt Revolver. The "issue" bemoaned by Uberti owners is due to the relationship of the key (wedge) and arbor.

Can you describe it to us? I don’t own that book.

Smokey Plainsman · Aug 9, 2020

Bob McBride said:
I think Duelist1954 has a video on his channel where he corrects a short arbor with a brass spacer of some sort. I don’t recall his exact procedure but I did his repair on one years ago.

Thanks, Mike! Duelist1954 is a gem of knowledge on the cap n’ balls.

Gun Tramp · Aug 9, 2020

Smokey Plainsman said:
Can you describe it to us? I don’t own that book.

The 711 page text is A History of The Colt Revolver...1836-1940, Charles T. Haven and Frank A. Belden, 1940. Lots about the open-tops, and I found the extracts from "A day at the Armory of Colt's Patent Fire Arms Manufacturing Company, Hartford, Connecticut," published in the United States Magazine, March, 1857, invaluable; pages 350-360 detail the manufacturing processes for a "navy or belt pistol."

wb78963 · Aug 9, 2020

A competent gunsmith that specializes in percussion guns told me a #10 split (lock) washer in the ardor recess of the barrel will do the job just don't lose it when cleaning the gun.
Since most of my guns are Pietta that does not be a problem for me.
Bunk

Smokey Plainsman · Aug 9, 2020

Gun Tramp said:
The 711 page text is A History of The Colt Revolver...1836-1940, Charles T. Haven and Frank A. Belden, 1940. Lots about the open-tops, and I found the extracts from "A day at the Armory of Colt's Patent Fire Arms Manufacturing Company, Hartford, Connecticut," published in the United States Magazine, March, 1857, invaluable; pages 350-360 detail the manufacturing processes for a "navy or belt pistol."

Thanks I just ordered a copy. Sounds extremely interesting.

Gun Tramp · Aug 9, 2020

Smokey Plainsman said:
Thanks I just ordered a copy.

Fantastic. Please share your thoughts after you receive it... :thumb:

fireman1 · Aug 10, 2020

Here is a link to a series of articles written by a SASS member, Larson Pettifogger. He address that issue in one of those articles.

https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=63466.0
here is a link to the specific article that addresses that issue.

http://docplayer.net/54079109-Tunin...sen-e-pettifogger-sass-32933-life-part-3.html

Bad Karma · Aug 11, 2020

A friend showed me his fix... taped around the end of his arbor creating a cylinder of tape at the end of the arbor. he then filled the taped area with jb weld, lengthening the arbor by about .15”. let it set, then removed the tape and filed the spacer thus created until he got barrel and cylinder to fit perfectly. Cylinder gap on that gun is very tight and the gun works very well.
obviously clean the arbor and degrease it Thoroughly before anything else or you are wasting time.

mkpatrick · Mar 19, 2021

Phil Coffins said:
This applies to any Colt cap and ball.
https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=55544.0

OK so here is the dumbest question of the thread....
Is the arbor the shaft that the cylinder rides on?
Just confirming my terminology.

I'm fixn to head to a store that sells all sorts of spacers of different sizes. I want to make some measurements to get what I need.

I know that in modern firearms, cylinder gap should be as narrow as possible.
In the article that I read above, that guy fixed his short arbor problem with a spacer he made himself but afterwards, he had a significant cylinder gap.

So to be sure, so I have the right idea, I need to correct with a spacer a short arbor while also not creating too much cylinder gap.
Currently, when I tap the wedge in place with a small plastic tipped hammer, we're talking about 2 light taps are the difference between the hammer being able to freely move and having a lot of resistance.
So I can imagine, we're only talking a few thousandths here.

Sorry to ramble,
Is the arbor the shaft the cylinder rides on?

Phil Coffins · Mar 19, 2021

The shaft that the cylinder revolves on is called the arbor.

hawkeye2 · Mar 19, 2021

And you want to keep the cylinder gap as small as possible. Use a spacer that aligns the barrel lug and the frame exactly, no more, no less. At that point the barrel should not touch the face of the cylinder.

M. De Land · Mar 19, 2021

Smokey Plainsman said:
Can anyone give some good, permanent recommendations for fixing the short arbors on the Uberti cap and balls?

I don’t have access to a drill press or anything crazy. Maybe it’s best to just send it to a gunsmith? I am heavily interested in an Uberti fluted cylinder 1860 Army .44 but do not at all like the wonky wedge and arbor setup they have. I experienced that issue several years ago on one of their Navy’s.

Thanks!

-Smokey

In my opinion it is a solution in search of a problem which is why Uberti did or does not correct it. Why would they go to the trouble of fitting the rest of the guns so well and leave the well long if it is a real issue?
First off in the button fix the guy purposely weakens the end of the arbor by drilling into the wedge slot for the button stem. Same deal when it is threaded for an adjustable screw. Second he filed the wedge to fit the slot better after inserting the button which should be hard and would make it difficult if not impossible to file.
The slots in the barrel and end of the arbor need to be fit to a properly shaped and hardened wedge not the other way around!

SDSmlf · Mar 19, 2021

mkpatrick said:
Currently, when I tap the wedge in place with a small plastic tipped hammer, we're talking about 2 light taps are the difference between the hammer being able to freely move and having a lot of resistance.
So I can imagine, we're only talking a few thousandths here.

If a few light taps with a small plastic tip hammer is binding things up, you are likely talking more than a few thousands. With proper length arbor matched to the depth of the hole in the barrel assembly, it will not matter how many taps or how hard you tap the wedge, the action will not bind up.

Below is a photo of a Pietta (sold by Navy Arms) before the change to CNC machining. Arbor is about a .100” short, similar to the latest Ubertis I have seen.

Correcting Uberti Short Arbors?

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