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Brown Bess question

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Tx635

40 Cal
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I was looking for another thing to put together as my last two ideas haven't paned out as being viable for a beginner or with components I could find.
Im still throwing darts at a board at this point. So I found another thing that maybe cool and fun to shoot if it's a viable Idea. I saw a couple kits for brown Bess trade guns, they are a "pretty penny" to me at $1000 each. I was looking at these more as inspiration for something I could piece together and take my time with. But I do have a few things I'm wondering about with this kind of build.

Are these accurate in a historical context, being a barrel and I think a lock from a Bess but most everything else is different? Would something like this be ok for a first build? How would this shoot? And last but not least just out of curiosity, could a socket bayonet be used with one?

Thanks ladies and gentlemen. Hopefully I'm not burning everyone out with my constant questions and seemingly bouncing off the wall from one idea to another. Thanks for your time and hopefully everyone is doing well.
 
Generally they are accepted instead of fully historicly correct.
some will make a big thing out of it some let it slide
It’s up to you what inaccuracies your willing to live with. No one has a completely correct repo.
If I was going to get a bess I would be happy with several on the market today
As far as shooting, a bess is not a rifle. They can give deer hunting accuracy to fifty yards and fun to shoot at that range as you hit your target enough to enjoy it.
A bees is more fun then legal to play with.
 
tenngun said:
Generally they are accepted instead of fully historicly correct.
some will make a big thing out of it some let it slide
It’s up to you what inaccuracies your willing to live with. No one has a completely correct repo.
If I was going to get a bess I would be happy with several on the market today
As far as shooting, a bess is not a rifle. They can give deer hunting accuracy to fifty yards and fun to shoot at that range as you hit your target enough to enjoy it.
A bees is more fun then legal to play with.
Click to expand...
Sounds good. I found first model parts on track of the wolf as well as some trade stocks that may work with the barrel and lock but will need to ask them if it's possible.
 
Tx635 said:
, could a socket bayonet be used with one?


IMG_3471.jpeg
Click to expand...
Mine has one! Go for it!
Larry
 
The only historically correct Brown Bess Reproduction you will find is by the Rifle Shoppe. Track of the Wolf’s Brown Bess is a good copy of a 1742 Brown Bess, other than the lock markings.

You can always do a patchwork of parts and have someone cut a stock. There are a couple of places that offer bess 1742 era stocks and you can get parts and get a lock kit To make a pretty accurate 1750’s era bess.

Otherwise, a pedersoli bess or Indian made bess is your only other options.

I have a friend who took a grice lock by pedersoli, a long land stock and had Ed Rayl make a .75 caliber Long Land Barrel with Track Parts, it worked out pretty nicely, even though the lock is less than authentic, its a good representation of a Long land bess
 
Larry (Omaha) said:
Mine has one! Go for it!
Larry
Click to expand...
That looks great. Ya I was thinking it would be cool to be able to put the bayonet on, nice to see it will work.
Where did you get your kit from? Or did you build it on your own? I'm thinking about piecing it together to kind of break up the investment over time.
Like I said earlier, I've been basically throwing everything I can at the wall trying to figure out something that will stick. Thank you for the help.
 
FlinterNick said:
The only historically correct Brown Bess Reproduction you will find is by the Rifle Shoppe. Track of the Wolf’s Brown Bess is a good copy of a 1742 Brown Bess, other than the lock markings.

You can always do a patchwork of parts and have someone cut a stock. There are a couple of places that offer bess 1742 era stocks and you can get parts and get a lock kit To make a pretty accurate 1750’s era bess.

Otherwise, a pedersoli bess or Indian made bess is your only other options.

I have a friend who took a grice lock by pedersoli, a long land stock and had Ed Rayl make a .75 caliber Long Land Barrel with Track Parts, it worked out pretty nicely, even though the lock is less than authentic, its a good representation of a Long land bess
Click to expand...
I was just curious about the historical authenticity. I'm not too hung up on it. I think I may put one of these "trade guns" together. It'll seem pretty cool as a hunting musket. Although I think I'll put a patch box on it, I'd like to have one to carry patches.
 
Tx635 said:
I was just curious about the historical authenticity. I'm not too hung up on it. I think I may put one of these "trade guns" together. It'll seem pretty cool as a hunting musket. Although I think I'll put a patch box on it, I'd like to have one to carry patches.
Click to expand...

There are many trade gun experts that will pick apart them for historical accuracy. In my opinion a trade gun can be what ever you want it to be.

Lock: Early Dog Lock, Unbridaled Flintlock or Bridled lock. The size of the lock shouldn’t be less than 6” long.

Stock: Can be on a variety of shapes from traditional fowler to french style Roman nose. Almost any wood can be used, with Walnut and Cherry or straight grained maple being the most common. I’ve seen some stocked in woods like Locust and Mulberry.

Barrels: can be full round to half round half octagon at .58-.70, most were not rifled, but modern ones are.

Furniture: Furniture was generally cheaper on all trade guns, and was often made of sheet brass and steel formed to the stock and pinned or nailed on. Most trade guns didn’t have an entry thimble or nose cap, however I don’t think it was an optional upgrade for trade gun owners.

patch boxes would move the gun out of the trade gun category and more into a fantasy type of gun. You would almost never find a trade gun with a patchbox. Most were smoothbore and were loaded with shot and wadding (Paper, dried fungus, dead grass, wasp nest etc.
 
FlinterNick said:
There are many trade gun experts that will pick apart them for historical accuracy. In my opinion a trade gun can be what ever you want it to be.

Lock: Early Dog Lock, Unbridaled Flintlock or Bridled lock. The size of the lock shouldn’t be less than 6” long.

Stock: Can be on a variety of shapes from traditional fowler to french style Roman nose. Almost any wood can be used, with Walnut and Cherry or straight grained maple being the most common. I’ve seen some stocked in woods like Locust and Mulberry.

Barrels: can be full round to half round half octagon at .58-.70, most were not rifled, but modern ones are.

Furniture: Furniture was generally cheaper on all trade guns, and was often made of sheet brass and steel formed to the stock and pinned or nailed on. Most trade guns didn’t have an entry thimble or nose cap, however I don’t think it was an optional upgrade for trade gun owners.

patch boxes would move the gun out of the trade gun category and more into a fantasy type of gun. You would almost never find a trade gun with a patchbox. Most were smoothbore and were loaded with shot and wadding (Paper, dried fungus, dead grass, wasp nest etc.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much. Very informative. I'm planning on iron mounting it. I was only curious about the historical authenticity of something like it. I'm not too concerned about if people say it is or not after I made it. It'll be a hunting weapon and I'll be happy with having it be my own design. I've been getting a few ideas for how I'd like it to turn out, hopefully she'll look nice.
 
Tx635 said:
Thank you very much. Very informative. I'm planning on iron mounting it. I was only curious about the historical authenticity of something like it. I'm not too concerned about if people say it is or not after I made it. It'll be a hunting weapon and I'll be happy with having it be my own design. I've been getting a few ideas for how I'd like it to turn out, hopefully she'll look nice.
Click to expand...

The general things that pop out on a trade gun are the following.

1. No entry pipe or nose cap.
2. A sheet metal butt plate held in by nails.
3. A sheet metal trigger guard.
4. This might sound odd but crooked screw alignments, these guns were were not perfectly made with counter sunk screws.
5. No wrist plates or barrel keys.
6. Stocked to the muzzle
7. Cheaper grades of wood, meaning not a lot of grain Structure.
8. Not uncommon to see a fancy front sight, like a turtle sight or spider sight.
 
Tx635 said:
That looks great. Ya I was thinking it would be cool to be able to put the bayonet on, nice to see it will work.
Where did you get your kit from? Or did you build it on your own? I'm thinking about piecing it together to kind of break up the investment over time.
Like I said earlier, I've been basically throwing everything I can at the wall trying to figure out something that will stick. Thank you for the help.
Click to expand...
Neither, I purchased a Pedersoli BB complete. I make my own rifles, but this smoothie, I didn't feel like making.
I realize you may be trying to spread your expenses, but make sure you have all the parts at least figured out and availability for when you need them. My guess is prices will be going up. Good luck, they are a hoot to shoot/.
Larry
IMG_3472.jpeg
 
FlinterNick said:
The general things that pop out on a trade gun are the following.

1. No entry pipe or nose cap.
2. A sheet metal butt plate held in by nails.
3. A sheet metal trigger guard.
4. This might sound odd but crooked screw alignments, these guns were were not perfectly made with counter sunk screws.
5. No wrist plates or barrel keys.
6. Stocked to the muzzle
7. Cheaper grades of wood, meaning not a lot of grain Structure.
8. Not uncommon to see a fancy front sight, like a turtle sight or spider sight.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much. You're definitely knowledgeable about these things. You're a big help
Larry (Omaha) said:
Neither, I purchased a Pedersoli BB complete. I make my own rifles, but this smoothie, I didn't feel like making.
I realize you may be trying to spread your expenses, but make sure you have all the parts at least figured out and availability for when you need them. My guess is prices will be going up. Good luck, they are a hoot to shoot/.
LarryView attachment 80497
Click to expand...
Very nice looking. I'll definitely keep that in mind about the prices. What's making you think they will be going up, supply and demand or just general inflammation?
 
Larry (Omaha) said:
The Dems, just my gut!
Click to expand...
I get what you're laying down. Thanks for keeping it clean too.

I was looking around and was able to find all the parts for the 1742 Bess on track of the wolf. Almost everything is in stock. I think I may piece that one together after all.
 
To study what various models of original BB's looked like I would recommend getting "British Military Longarms 1715—1815, D.W. Bailey copyright 1971"
Copies of this and other interesting works available from: abebooks
 
Tx635 said:
I was just curious about the historical authenticity. I'm not too hung up on it. I think I may put one of these "trade guns" together. It'll seem pretty cool as a hunting musket. Although I think I'll put a patch box on it, I'd like to have one to carry patches.
Click to expand...
You might look at a smooth rifle. You can have a patch box on this, an historic example of a private American Fowling gun with patch box:
711E8035-AD1D-401D-9BB0-76415C6E5400.jpeg
 
dave_person said:
Hi JC,
I have all of Bailey's books and they are great but the best book on Brown Besses with respect to identifying patterns and for the builder, is Goldstein and Mowbray's "The Brown Bess" . It is the must have book if you are going to build or collect Brown Besses.

dave
Click to expand...
The Goldstein book is great lots of pictures ,assembled and individual parts
 

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