Grains by weight or volume???

MTFURY · Dec 9, 2022

I have always loaded my muzzleloader with grains by weight, now I am being told I am doing it wrong it should be grains by volume.
I have never heard of loading by volume but maybe I live to far out in the sticks and am too old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please enlighten me.

Thanks

MTFURY · Dec 9, 2022

Just found an old post that answered my question, Thanks

TDM · Dec 9, 2022

Nice Chevy.

tenngun · Dec 9, 2022

Almost all powder in the past was measured by volume. And ultimately volume forms the base of weight measurement now. An ounce of water weighs an ounce, a cc of water weighs one gram, so a kilo, makes 1000 cc of one liter of water.

Uncle Miltie · Dec 9, 2022

Measuring powder by weight is the most precise way to do it, though most folks measure by volume.

Brokennock · Dec 9, 2022

Traditionally black powder is measured by volume.
Measuring by weight is more precise, but bringing a powder scale to the range os a pain, and bringing one hunting seems ridiculous.
While a gram of water will weigh a gram on a scale,,,, black powder is not the same. So far my experience has been that my 3f Goex weighs slightly less than my volume measure reads when the charge is weighed on a scale. A charge from my 65 grain volume measure generally weighs a little under 65 grains when weighed on my powder scale. So, not a huge safety concern, but I would try not to mix up loads listed as by weight with loads listed as by volume.

Col. Batguano · Dec 9, 2022

Has anyone put together a chart that shows the volume to weight ratios of the various powders in the same sized volumetric measure? Also with a corresponding velocity.

I'd be curious to see where Swiss fits in vs. Goex and the other less expensive powders, as, we generally tailor our loads for velocity (with the exception of the very very light loads that have to have enough volume to get the ball high enough off the breech to let the pan ignite the main charge).

TFoley · Dec 9, 2022

Col. Batguano said:
Has anyone put together a chart that shows the volume to weight ratios of the various powders in the same sized volumetric measure? Also with a corresponding velocity.

I'd be curious to see where Swiss fits in vs. Goex and the other less expensive powders, as, we generally tailor our loads for velocity (with the exception of the very very light loads that have to have enough volume to get the ball high enough off the breech to let the pan ignite the main charge).

Swiss, as we have read here a number of times before, tends to be at least 10% more energetic than the best US-made powder, whatever that might be.

TDM · Dec 9, 2022

Measure by Volume.

Col. Batguano · Dec 9, 2022

Yes indeed we've seen that posted, but I was actually looking for a chart. When we buy powder it's sold by weight though.

dave951 · Dec 9, 2022

Measured by WEIGHT. Dispensed by VOLUME.

Get it right folks and quit confusing the issue. It's done this way with ALL powder. Set the measure with a scale, the measure dispenses by volume

TDM · Dec 9, 2022

Volume works just fine for me. But you can certainly weight it too. Me, I just don't find it necessary.

TDM · Dec 9, 2022

Here you go @Col. Batguano

BLACK POWDER & SUBSTITUTES
	Volume to Weight Conversion Chart			December 2012
					American	Jim	Jim	Hodgdon	Hodgdon
				Goex	Pioneer	Shockey's	Shockey's	Triple	Triple
	vol.	vol.	Goex	Express	Powder	Gold	Gold	Seven	Seven	Pyrodex
	cc	gr.	FFFg	FFg	FFFg	FFg	FFFg	FFg	FFFg	P
	6.67	100	101.1	104.6	78.4	88.3	83.0	77.2	81.4	76.0
	6.33	95	96.0	99.4	74.5	83.9	78.9	73.3	77.3	72.2
	6.00	90	91.0	94.2	70.6	79.5	74.7	69.5	73.3	68.4
	5.67	85	85.9	88.9	66.7	75.1	70.6	65.6	69.2	64.6
	5.33	80	80.9	83.7	62.7	70.6	66.4	61.8	65.1	60.8
	5.00	75	75.8	78.5	58.8	66.2	62.3	57.9	61.1	57.0
	4.67	70	70.7	73.2	54.9	61.8	58.1	54.0	57.0	53.2
	4.33	65	65.7	68.0	51.0	57.4	54.0	50.2	52.9	49.4
	4.00	60	60.6	62.8	47.1	53.0	49.8	46.3	48.8	45.6
	3.67	55	55.6	57.5	43.1	48.6	45.7	42.5	44.8	41.8
	3.33	50	50.5	52.3	39.2	44.2	41.5	38.6	40.7	38.0
	3.27	49	49.5	51.3	38.4	43.3	40.7	37.8	39.9	37.2
	3.20	48	48.5	50.2	37.6	42.4	39.9	37.1	39.1	36.5
	3.13	47	47.5	49.2	36.9	41.5	39.0	36.3	38.3	35.7
	3.07	46	46.5	48.1	36.1	40.6	38.2	35.5	37.4	34.9
	3.00	45	45.5	47.1	35.3	39.7	37.4	34.7	36.6	34.2
	2.93	44	44.5	46.0	34.5	38.9	36.5	34.0	35.8	33.4
	2.87	43	43.5	45.0	33.7	38.0	35.7	33.2	35.0	32.7
	2.80	42	42.4	43.9	32.9	37.1	34.9	32.4	34.2	31.9
	2.73	41	41.4	42.9	32.2	36.2	34.0	31.7	33.4	31.1
	2.67	40	40.4	41.9	31.4	35.3	33.2	30.9	32.6	30.4
	2.60	39	39.4	40.8	30.6	34.4	32.4	30.1	31.7	29.6
	2.53	38	38.4	39.8	29.8	33.6	31.6	29.3	30.9	28.9
	2.47	37	37.4	38.7	29.0	32.7	30.7	28.6	30.1	28.1
	2.40	36	36.4	37.7	28.2	31.8	29.9	27.8	29.3	27.3
	2.33	35	35.4	36.6	27.4	30.9	29.1	27.0	28.5	26.6
	2.27	34	34.4	35.6	26.7	30.0	28.2	26.2	27.7	25.8
	2.20	33	33.4	34.5	25.9	29.1	27.4	25.5	26.9	25.1
	2.13	32	32.3	33.5	25.1	28.3	26.6	24.7	26.0	24.3
	2.07	31	31.3	32.4	24.3	27.4	25.7	23.9	25.2	23.5
	2.00	30	30.3	31.4	23.5	26.5	24.9	23.2	24.4	22.8
	1.93	29	29.3	30.3	22.7	25.6	24.1	22.4	23.6	22.0
	1.87	28	28.3	29.3	22.0	24.7	23.2	21.6	22.8	21.3
	1.80	27	27.3	28.3	21.2	23.8	22.4	20.8	22.0	20.5
	1.73	26	26.3	27.2	20.4	23.0	21.6	20.1	21.2	19.8
	1.67	25	25.3	26.2	19.6	22.1	20.8	19.3	20.4	19.0
	1.60	24	24.3	25.1	18.8	21.2	19.9	18.5	19.5	18.2
	1.53	23	23.2	24.1	18.0	20.3	19.1	17.8	18.7	17.5
	1.47	22	22.2	23.0	17.3	19.4	18.3	17.0	17.9	16.7
	1.40	21	21.2	22.0	16.5	18.5	17.4	16.2	17.1	16.0
	1.33	20	20.2	20.9	15.7	17.7	16.6	15.4	16.3	15.2
	1.27	19	19.2	19.9	14.9	16.8	15.8	14.7	15.5	14.4
	1.20	18	18.2	18.8	14.1	15.9	14.9	13.9	14.7	13.7
	1.13	17	17.2	17.8	13.3	15.0	14.1	13.1	13.8	12.9
	1.07	16	16.2	16.7	12.5	14.1	13.3	12.4	13.0	12.2
	1.00	15	15.2	15.7	11.8	13.2	12.5	11.6	12.2	11.4
	0.93	14	14.1	14.6	11.0	12.4	11.6	10.8	11.4	10.6
	0.87	13	13.1	13.6	10.2	11.5	10.8	10.0	10.6	9.9
	0.80	12	12.1	12.6	9.4	10.6	10.0	9.3	9.8	9.1
	0.73	11	11.1	11.5	8.6	9.7	9.1	8.5	9.0	8.4
	0.67	10	10.1	10.5	7.8	8.8	8.3	7.7	8.1	7.6
	0.60	9	9.1	9.4	7.1	7.9	7.5	6.9	7.3	6.8
	0.53	8	8.1	8.4	6.3	7.1	6.6	6.2	6.5	6.1
	0.47	7	7.1	7.3	5.5	6.2	5.8	5.4	5.7	5.3
	0.40	6	6.1	6.3	4.7	5.3	5.0	4.6	4.9	4.6
	0.33	5	5.1	5.2	3.9	4.4	4.2	3.9	4.1	3.8
	0.27	4	4.0	4.2	3.1	3.5	3.3	3.1	3.3	3.0
	0.20	3	3.0	3.1	2.4	2.6	2.5	2.3	2.4	2.3
	0.13	2	2.0	2.1	1.6	1.8	1.7	1.5	1.6	1.5
	0.07	1	1.0	1.0	0.8	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.8

	This is a revision of the chart I put on Captain Baylor's Ranger Camp in 2005. Then I used an adjustable
	measure to measure 100 gr. FFg by weight then use that measure to produce the same volume of Black Powder Substitutes.
	This time I started with a 4.0 cc. Lyman dipper and weighed 5 samples of each powder, then averaged.
	Black Powder Loads are normally measured in volume. 15 gr. vol. is 1.0 cc.
	1.0 cc. weighs approximately 15 gr. This chart converts to weights of equivalent volumes.
	Weights were rounded to the nearest .1 gr. Duplicating results closer than the nearest grain using BP and subs is difficult and unnecessary.
	The old chart is still on the site at :
	Black Powder Conversions
	Your mileage may vary, but Black Powder Ain't Brain surgery

	Ounces to Grains--useful for adjusting shot charges using a powder scale that measures in grains.
					Ounces to Grains
					OUNCE	GRAINS
					16	7000
					1	438
					1.125	492
					1.25	547
					1.275	558
					1.3	569
					1.325	580
					1.35	591
					1.375	602
					1.5	656



					Drams to Gr. BP
					Dram	Gr. BP
					1	27.3
					2	54.7
					2.25	61.5
					2.5	68.4
					2.75	75.2
					3	82.0
					3.25	88.9
					3.5	88.9
					3.75	102.5

TDM · Dec 9, 2022

I couldn't find anything that included Swiss.

And I want to add that my insistence on using volume comes mainly from me using nothing but Goex. I luckily have a lot of it, it's what I started with and I've never changed. I have other brands, but don't use them. I've tested my measures and they're consistent. Now if I was using multiple brands of powder, then weighing would make sense.

andy52 · Dec 9, 2022

I don't think I've ever loaded a muzzleloader by weight. I only do that when I'm loading modern firearms, I can't imagine how one would carry around a scale to weigh black powder. Maybe pre-weighted loads.

TDM · Dec 9, 2022

I rarely reload anymore, but yes, that absolutely requires precise weights. I take weighing those loads very seriously.

dave951 · Dec 9, 2022

andy52 said:
I don't think I've ever loaded a muzzleloader by weight. I only do that when I'm loading modern firearms, I can't imagine how one would carry around a scale to weigh black powder. Maybe pre-weighted loads.

You only THINK you're using modern by weighing. We've been over this before. You set the powder measure by weight using a scale. The powder measure dispenses based on volume. The only way you're going exclusively weight is if you drop a charge and use a trickler to bring it up to weight.

Now in black powder, many just go by volume but they aren't shooting competition.

Bunk · Dec 9, 2022

well it is both. For smokessomewhatlesss powders we masure a VOLUME that WEIGHS

Bunk · Dec 9, 2022

Bunk said:
well it is both. For smokessomewhatlesss powders we masure a VOLUME that WEIGHS

well spit my computer hiccuped.
...a volume that weighs the required amount.
However with Black Gunpowder supposedly with some granulation of some brand of Gunpowder the "grain" weight equals the measured "volume" in theory.
Unless you are shooting a sub MOA muzzle loading rifle find the volume and brand that works and don't worry about the weight.
Sorry about the two layer post but my (expletives omitted) computer sometimes does that.Very annoying
Remember it is not so much how FAST the ball goes
It is WHERE the ball goes.
IMHO
Bunk

Brokennock · Dec 9, 2022

dave951 said:
You only THINK you're using modern by weighing. We've been over this before. You set the powder measure by weight using a scale.

Have you ever considered that some people who only shoot muzzleloaders, or that don't reload for cartridge guns,,,,, don't even own a powder scale?! Maybe they only have one of the adjustable volume measures sold as a black powder accessory? Maybe they developed their load using this and then made a dedicated individual measure or charger for that load based on the volume of the adjustable measure?

Of course, this could never really work and they would be all wrong wouldn't they....

Grains by weight or volume???

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