Though I don’t have one, I know folks that have a Magnetospeed and they claim it works great with muzzleloaders.
Guesstimate my muzzle velocity?
- Thread starter MTguy
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Use this. Your pyrodex is most likely equivalent to Swiss 2F when calculating.
https://www.p-max.uk/cgi-bin/black_powder.cgi
https://www.p-max.uk/cgi-bin/black_powder.cgi
hockeyref
40 Cal.
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Where/how to aim to hit at a given distance - probably so. Actually How fast it goes - not so much.
It's funny, but long before the general public knew about the speed of sound, or foot-pounds of energy on impact..., they knew about what we today call cause-and-effect relationships. So the very old school way of developing a rifle load, because they were looking for the results as well as not wasting expensive components like powder and lead, they would have a person stand off to the side of the shooter and listen for the "crack" when the rifle shot. What we know today is that they were listening for the crack when the bullet popped through the sound barrier. When the powder load caused the ball to crack as it flew down range, they'd cut their powder measure to throw that amount of powder. They knew that with a round ball, that would be effective.
Today we exceed that point by a large amount. We are not worried about the price of components that much, nor of recovering the spend ball within the critter, as they were. That old rule-of-thumb is so old, that it's pre-conical, and I haven't heard that they did the same when they started using heavy conical bullets...,
As for a 460 grain projectile WOW, I've seen 270 and 320 grain conicals poll-axe deer. A 460 grain must be very interesting.
LD
longcruise
70 Cal.
Interesting. I've been considering a new chronograph and was shying away from the magneto. I'll explore it further.
I wouldn’t recommend it it. With blade sights and ramrod holder you are very limited in where you can mount it on your barrel which is likely why I couldn’t get it to read.
longcruise
70 Cal.
Good point. Probably go with a Caldwell. My Chrony must be over 40 years.
I know @chorizo was a big fan of the MagnetoSpeed, though his testing was with T7, not BP or Pyrodex. You may want to check out some of his and others’ posts on them. Obviously a learning curve with a muzzleloader. Check out his comments in Post #23 in this thread.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...-velocity-results-chronographed.159742/page-2
Check out that new garmin. Kind of pricy but sounds like the best thing going.
Brokennock
Cannon
I chrono some of my modern unmentionable ammo.
Mostly because some of it I have to.
And I can see it being of value for modern long range shooters.
But, it seems kind of antithetical to muzzleloading's simplicity.
Just shoot.
Siringo
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I used to do velocity experiments with round balls in physics class in high school. We could propel a steel ball at a pendulum and be able to calculate the velocity by the movement of the pendulum. Simple physics.
Siringo
32 Cal.
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I have a magnospeed and dislike it. It difficult to use on anything except a plain barrel. It would not always register a shot and the electronic controls are Soviet era. On mine, the black powder started to melt the plastic. Luckily it was given to me.
I went back to Caldwell products because they are simpler to use electronically. Although you have to set them up on a stand.
Lab radars are supposed to be great, but I’d need a bank loan to buy one!!!!!
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Vane, I’ll agree with you paper and can get very boring. Myself and a few others with enough properties have put up swinging steel targets at very challenging distances. To see and hear the clang is a hundred times better. Now I seldom go to paper, but do hit various rendezvous which have swinging steel. You should try it.
Doc,
I have an Oehler 35P chronograph that I have used since 1987. I have shot many rounds, both modern and muzzle loading, without a problem. One MUST have extra distance to the start screen for a muzzle loader. I use 14 feet for a good velocity reading. I made a post a couple months ago for the proper setup of the Oehler 35P. One must realize that the chronograph reading is the instrumental velocity and not a muzzle velocity. One must know the distance from the gun muzzle to the start screen and calculate the muzzle velocity.
One MUST shoot through the center of the screens. The chronograph only knows the distance put into chronograph through the program switches. IF the shooter fires through the screens at an angle, that distance will be changed. The example I used was a 48 inch screen spacing put into the chronograph but by firing at an angle that distance could be increased to as much as 51 inches. You can read my post for the details. The velocity readings are only as good as the chronograph setup.
The drag table requirements are established by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturing Institute (SAAMI). The actual firing and drag table creation is done by the US Army Aberdeen Proving Ground. The SAAMI organization holds the copyright on these drag tables. The programmer must secure a license to use the drag table in their programs. If anyone is interested, please go to the Oehler Ballistic Explorer Program help section for details. I shoot PRB, so I use the Gs drag function which has worked fine for me.
The SAAMI and ammunition companies use the proving ground because of the high cost of testing (measuring equipment and environmental control). The Army does all types of testing and this is just a small part of it. The latest drag testing method is laser for distance and doppler for time. One should check with the ballistic program programmer to see which measure method is used in their program. If the ballistic program is old, then an older method might be used.
I have found ballistics to be very interesting to me but to each his own.
One MUST shoot through the center of the screens. The chronograph only knows the distance put into chronograph through the program switches. IF the shooter fires through the screens at an angle, that distance will be changed. The example I used was a 48 inch screen spacing put into the chronograph but by firing at an angle that distance could be increased to as much as 51 inches. You can read my post for the details. The velocity readings are only as good as the chronograph setup.
The drag table requirements are established by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturing Institute (SAAMI). The actual firing and drag table creation is done by the US Army Aberdeen Proving Ground. The SAAMI organization holds the copyright on these drag tables. The programmer must secure a license to use the drag table in their programs. If anyone is interested, please go to the Oehler Ballistic Explorer Program help section for details. I shoot PRB, so I use the Gs drag function which has worked fine for me.
The SAAMI and ammunition companies use the proving ground because of the high cost of testing (measuring equipment and environmental control). The Army does all types of testing and this is just a small part of it. The latest drag testing method is laser for distance and doppler for time. One should check with the ballistic program programmer to see which measure method is used in their program. If the ballistic program is old, then an older method might be used.
I have found ballistics to be very interesting to me but to each his own.
When a shooter wants to use the crack method of measuring velocities, go to the Lyman Black Powder Handbook and chapter 14 Black Powder Fact & Fancy. The slipstream can cause the crack rather than the ball. This is why the chronograph is a better way of checking the velocity. I can understand that back in the day, this was the best way of trying to establish a load.
CaptainVane
Colt ‘51 & Remington ‘58 .36; Colt ‘48 .31
Doc, wish i could shoot steel, soda cans, water bottles, etc. Only paper targets are allowed at the public range i use.
Although, its been 3 weeks since I pulled a trigger cause its just too cold to go out and shoot and id be happy for one warm day to kill paper. Alas, maybe come April.
t/c had load tables in the users manual that listed x amount of powder with x ball or bullet equaled x amount of feet per second . I always figured if my load was approx the same and the grain weight of the projectile was close then the feet per second would be within the same range
shoot through a large piece of paper betwee the muzzle and the chrony screen it will only see the projectile
I found tha a chrono sometimes has problems because the patch is still wrapped up with the ball, or very close to it. I overcame that by shooting through a piece of thin cardboard placed a few inches in front of the instrument. The card caught the patches.
Most any breechloader puts ml to shame. Today energy is measured in foot tons. And people can take shots way out of range. Some him with the .50 BAR round and can easily reach half a mile.
A .50 is pretty anemic at a hundred yards. Even right at the muzzle a 30-30 out does it.
But then now and back then made meat and honor guards in hell all over.
We have been taught to look at numbers. And expect a Hollywood response where animal goes down with our a quiver.
That doesn’t happen, even with the most powerful guns today. But we have been taught to expect that, so we get silly over numbers.
I remember getting in to this thinking you had to load for bear.
But I learned
Slow, but learned
