Kibler - field observations?

I didn't want to hijack the previous kibler thread so decided to start my own. It's probably a moot conversation, to date I know Jim hasn't been willing to ship to Australia. We can get Chambers easily so I know it's possible to get kits here without too much hassle. I'd like to do a chambers but maybe better off trying a kibler first (if possible to get one).

Anyway, I'm after first hand experience of guys using the various models for hunting. The SMR is probably not worth consideration as my state has a minimum ball weight of 230 grain for deer.

So of the Colonial and Woodsrunner how have folks found it for practicality when hunting? I'm not referring to walking a couple hundred yards to a treestand and back. But anyone that has experience with ground hunting through hills and thick country how are they? I typically shoot 3-5 big game animals from 20 yards to 130 yards a year, so my guns need to be good hunters.

I've got my doubts on a colonial weighing in at around 10lb being a great option for lugging through the hills day on day. I can handle heavy-ish type guns but I prefer something more manageable. I'm open to any honest feedback good or bad in this regard.

Conversely how is the woodsrunner? I know it's shorter and must be lighter. Is it good for hiking through the hills? On that does anyone have an actual length for the gun? I can find barrel length but not OAL?

Alternatively, I have heard rumours he's one day going to do a hawken flintlock, maybe I'm best waiting to see if that eventuates. Or maybe I could just keep building them and try for one in the shorter term.

I've shot 2 whitetail deer with my colonial in 54, all my local hunting areas are mountainous and covered in brush. I probably would have chose the woodsrunner if it had been available though i've got no regrets. I'll most likely swap on a 58 caliber barrel for this years season to shed a little weight. I covered a fair bit of ground and I never noticed the weight of the rifle until it was time to drag the deer out of the woods.

If you can improvise a sling or strap it to your pack it would make a world of difference on the drag out, my first deer I had rifle in one hand and dragging deer with the other uphill and it was a miserable trip to the truck. This season I had a backpack I could strap the rifle to on the way out and use both hands, although a gun that long strapped to your back presents its own challenges moving through the woods.

I've carried a 38" barrel rifle through lots and lots of thick brush and steep hills, often for long hours at a time. I'd have happily gotten a Woodsrunner if they'd been out at the time I built my last rifle. OAL for my rifle with a 38" swamped barrel is about 52" and weighs 7.5 lbs, approximately.

My 58 cal Colonial weighs an ounce or so over 8 pounds, with”perfect” balance. I have a Hubbard Virginia rifle(50 cal) that is dimensionally and weight-wise nearly identical to the Woodsruunner. Quite frankly, at less then a half a pound of weight and a few extra inches of barrel length, the difference between the two is not all that noticeable during my hunting treks. I suspect that when Jim introduces his Hawken rifle it will be at the very least, the same weight as his Colonial rifle….probably heavier if it’s an accurate representation.

I don't think I'll be shooting 130 yards with my .58 Kibler colonial smoothbore but I hike these hills up and down. Mine comes in at 8.6lbs and about 5 foot 2in but, feels like 6lbs it carries well and balanced when it comes to the shoulder. I don't know what kind of terrain you hunt in but, if it looks anything like this? The Colonial does not hinder me in any way. Plenty thick timber in my neck of the woods, yeah it has its open woods too but mostly thick.

Ballshooter said:

I don't think I'll be shooting 130 yards with my .58 Kibler colonial smoothbore but I hike these hills up and down. Mine comes in at 8.6lbs and about 5 foot 2in but, feels like 6lbs it carries well and balanced when it comes to the shoulder. I don't know what kind of terrain you hunt in but, if it looks anything like this? The Colonial does not hinder me in any way. Plenty thick timber in my neck of the woods, yeah it has its open woods too but mostly thick.

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I hunt the Northeast woodlands, and am predominantly a still hunter. With this terrain and style of hunting, shots are typically 25-75 yards. I like the 58(279gr, LRB for its penetration/energy for frequent angled shots. I have really taken to the Kibler Colonial rifle for it’s nice blend of superb accuracy, manageable weight, great balance, and beefy proportions. This photo shows the typical terrain I hunt,,,Along with a fat doe shot at 70 paces last month with my Kibler.

Beautiful country, beautiful rifles..

The .58 colonial is and excellent hunting rifle. I have no experience with the woodsrunner, but I understand it's a smaller gun and a little shorter.

I have a Colonial and a Woodsrunner, both in .54 cal. the Colonial weighs 9lb. 4oz. and the Woodsrunner weighs 7lbs. 8oz. and is a joy to carry.

Thank you all for the replies it's great to get different perspectives. Travel is also another consideration, it's a long gun and would potentially need a custom hardcase. They are beautiful.

Timmit said:

I have a Colonial and a Woodsrunner, both in .54 cal. the Colonial weighs 9lb. 4oz. and the Woodsrunner weighs 7lbs. 8oz. and is a joy to carry.

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At around 9lb I think you would notice it over time while hiking.

Art Caputo said:

I hunt the Northeast woodlands, and am predominantly a still hunter. With this terrain and style of hunting, shots are typically 25-75 yards. I like the 58(279gr, LRB for its penetration/energy for frequent angled shots. I have really taken to the Kibler Colonial rifle for it’s nice blend of superb accuracy, manageable weight, great balance, and beefy proportions. This photo shows the typical terrain I hunt,,,Along with a fat doe shot at 70 paces last month with my Kibler.
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I often see the term “ perfectly balanced “ or “ well balanced “.
What exactly does that mean? I have never seen a definition.

smoothshooter said:

I often see the term “ perfectly balanced “ or “ well balanced “.
What exactly does that mean? I have never seen a definition.

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"Perfectly balanced" "well balanced"--makes the speaker sound like they know what they are talking about, eh? The problem, of course, is that H. M. Pope, Dan Bonillas, and Nash Buckingham all used terms like that and meant something different by it. Then you have to factor in differences in height, build, and conditioning . . . .

I've yet to see a Kibler rifle (let alone handle one). More than a month ago, I asked for some numbers: distance from the breech to rear sight, balance point for the .54 and .50 in inches measured from the trigger. Crickets. (I asked Kibler via email for the same information more than a year ago. No reply.) I'm guessing it is something most folks don't see as important.

As for traipsing around still-hunting with a heavy rifle, a lot depends on the shooter. I guided an elk hunter once who shot a .50 cal Hawken; the barrel was 1 1/8" by at least 38"--but he liked it, shot it well, and wanted to use it on what for him would probably be a once-in-a-lifetime hunt. I got a postcard from him the next year, saying he enjoyed the hunt, but was happy to get back to hunting with his Chambers English Sporting Rifle. If you're questioning the weight of Kibler's Colonial, maybe give something like Chambers ESR some consideration. It strikes me as a nearly-ideal dedicated hunting rifle for someone who likes to still-hunt.

My Pedersoli Rocky Mountain hawken is not well balanced. It's very muzzle heavy and keeping her steady for extended periods is taxing. My fusil de chasse despite a 41" barrel holds well and I have no probably staying on target.

LongWalker said:

(I asked Kibler via email for the same information more than a year ago. No reply.) I'm guessing it is something most folks don't see as important.

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In no way am I trying to be disrespectful or negative toward the kibler folks but a couple years back I emailed them a few times. I think when I mentioned I was outside the states I didn't hear back. Wrote a follow up email 6 weeks after that and still never got a reply.

Talking with the importer for Pedersoli who also brings in Chambers kits he said when speaking to Jim Australia would require a serial number stamped on the barrel. I think that was enough to be a burden.

My fusil got into Aus that way, was bought at Friendship and had an engraver put a serial number on it then privately imported to Aus. Easy done.

smoothshooter said:

I often see the term “ perfectly balanced “ or “ well balanced “.
What exactly does that mean? I have never seen a definition.

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The definition is subjective. A rifle or smoothbore that feels good in my hands and at my shoulder may not feel the same to you and vis versa. The objective definition is a balanced weight distribution that is not muzzle heavy or muzzle light.

TDM said:

The definition is subjective. A rifle or smoothbore that feels good in my hands and at my shoulder may not feel the same to you and vis versa. The objective definition is a balanced weight distribution that is not muzzle heavy or muzzle light.

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I agree with this…. It seems most apparent if you own multiple rifles and compare them when shooting in an off-hand position. Up to a point, it’s not about gross weight as much as it is about how the rifle feels/balances when mounted. I will say that on several occasions I have had other seasoned ML shooters comment positively on the weight distribution of my 58 Colonial. So much so, that two friends ordered the same rifle kit for this reason.

Bushfire said:

In no way am I trying to be disrespectful or negative toward the kibler folks but a couple years back I emailed them a few times. I think when I mentioned I was outside the states I didn't hear back. Wrote a follow up email 6 weeks after that and still never got a reply.

Talking with the importer for Pedersoli who also brings in Chambers kits he said when speaking to Jim Australia would require a serial number stamped on the barrel. I think that was enough to be a burden.

My fusil got into Aus that way, was bought at Friendship and had an engraver put a serial number on it then privately imported to Aus. Easy done.

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Jim does not customize kits as it disrupts the flow of business and he has a very successful business plan. I’m told serial numbers are the sole reason he doesn’t ship to Australia. When you take the number of kits he’d ship to Australia, it’s probably not worth the hassle

LongWalker said:

"Perfectly balanced" "well balanced"--makes the speaker sound like they know what they are talking about, eh? The problem, of course, is that H. M. Pope, Dan Bonillas, and Nash Buckingham all used terms like that and meant something different by it. Then you have to factor in differences in height, build, and conditioning . . . .

I've yet to see a Kibler rifle (let alone handle one). More than a month ago, I asked for some numbers: distance from the breech to rear sight, balance point for the .54 and .50 in inches measured from the trigger. Crickets. (I asked Kibler via email for the same information more than a year ago. No reply.) I'm guessing it is something most folks don't see as important.

As for traipsing around still-hunting with a heavy rifle, a lot depends on the shooter. I guided an elk hunter once who shot a .50 cal Hawken; the barrel was 1 1/8" by at least 38"--but he liked it, shot it well, and wanted to use it on what for him would probably be a once-in-a-lifetime hunt. I got a postcard from him the next year, saying he enjoyed the hunt, but was happy to get back to hunting with his Chambers English Sporting Rifle. If you're questioning the weight of Kibler's Colonial, maybe give something like Chambers ESR some consideration. It strikes me as a nearly-ideal dedicated hunting rifle for someone who likes to still-hunt.

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TDM is spot on. Handle and balance in a longrifle rests solely on the basis of subjectivity. I can assure you when you shoulder a Kibler colonial, there’s nothing like it. There’s virtually no barrel movement when aiming. It’s incredible.

As for the OP’s inquiry, I do not have a Woodsrunner, but I do have two colonials and can’t recommend them enough. The smoothie has yet to be fired (waiting on the barrel to be choked), but my .58 has and it is a SHOOTER. I don’t really notice the length being an issue when I hunt. I hunt a mix of open grasslands, farm ground, patchy pastures and timber in Kansas. I specifically got the caliber so I could use it to elk hunt and wouldn’t hesitate to take it in the mountains with a sling to carry.

This sounds much like "smooth" drawing, in traditional archery. Its really subjective and personal. Inevitably everyones favorite bow is really "smooth" because thats how they describe what they like.

LongWalker said:

"Perfectly balanced" "well balanced"--makes the speaker sound like they know what they are talking about, eh? The problem, of course, is that H. M. Pope, Dan Bonillas, and Nash Buckingham all used terms like that and meant something different by it. Then you have to factor in differences in height, build, and conditioning . . . .

I've yet to see a Kibler rifle (let alone handle one). More than a month ago, I asked for some numbers: distance from the breech to rear sight, balance point for the .54 and .50 in inches measured from the trigger. Crickets. (I asked Kibler via email for the same information more than a year ago. No reply.) I'm guessing it is something most folks don't see as important.

As for traipsing around still-hunting with a heavy rifle, a lot depends on the shooter. I guided an elk hunter once who shot a .50 cal Hawken; the barrel was 1 1/8" by at least 38"--but he liked it, shot it well, and wanted to use it on what for him would probably be a once-in-a-lifetime hunt. I got a postcard from him the next year, saying he enjoyed the hunt, but was happy to get back to hunting with his Chambers English Sporting Rifle. If you're questioning the weight of Kibler's Colonial, maybe give something like Chambers ESR some consideration. It strikes me as a nearly-ideal dedicated hunting rifle for someone who likes to still-hunt.

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