Idaho Lewis Modified NASA lube

DCAN said:

Chain saw bar oil might be worth a try on patches. Surely someone has already done it.

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I’ve not seen any synthetic bar oil (doesn’t mean it’s not out there), which typically by design and purpose has additives in it to make it sticky. Seems to go against the grain as far as what makes a good patch lube, but please report back after you try it.

Rawhide67 said:

Did something happen, seems like he was around not long ago. Or am I mixing him up with someone else?

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What Chorizo said.

I used to talk to him quite a bit via PM's, he was a really nice guy. Just got riled up by idiots on the public forum, not unlike many others including myself.

Contrary to what you see on this forum, I'm actually a nice guy too

Bushfire said:

Contrary to what you see on this forum, I'm actually a nice guy too

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Yeah, me too! That's my story anyways.

That’s a shame, but he wouldn’t be the first book of knowledge to disappear after too much exposure to anonymous internet “experts” and critics..

chorizo said:

Yeah, me too! That's my story anyways.

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I come across here on the forums as a pretty nice guy, but actually I'm a miserable SOB.

longcruise said:

I come across here on the forums as a pretty nice guy, but actually I'm a miserable SOB.

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I love it! Just waiting to spring that trap.

chorizo said:

Supposedly he got really tired of the drama and repetitiveness of the forums, even his own forum, so he quit participating sometime last fall, I believe.

Wealth of knowledge on long range shooting and accuracy. I have tried to build some of my carbines based upon information I gleamed from his "hot rod" builds. I believe @Idaho Ron could tell you more as my information is second hand at best. He communicated with him directly.

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Actually I built several Hot Rod Rifles about 10 years before Lewis started shooting muzzleloaders. His builds were actually replicas of my Hot rods.
He did go on to use Lee Shavers soule sights before I did. My last rifle I put together was with Lee Shavers sights based on Lewis's recommendations and use of them.

I started a thread about a year ago when I sent a barrel off to Bob Hoyt to have a fast twist for a conical bullet cut in it.

I'm not sure now if it was Lewis or Ron that replied and had been posting at the time. One of them weighed in as I had posted questions gone about my choice to go with a .375 caliber instead of the usual .45. Trying to keep my fillings intact. And, I had access to existing molds to work with. Ending up making a sizing die and doing a little research on paper patching bullets

It's not quite done or ready to shoot, but I'm picking away at it. Life sometimes gets in the way.

Hopefully, we will regain some lost members who have been pushed out by the crotchety argumentative crowd. There is so much information disappearing daily, these guys have generally been around a while to amass the information and experience that they have.

Idaho Ron said:

Actually I built several Hot Rod Rifles about 10 years before Lewis started shooting muzzleloaders. His builds were actually replicas of my Hot rods.
He did go on to use Lee Shavers soule sights before I did. My last rifle I put together was with Lee Shavers sights based on Lewis's recommendations and use of them.

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My apologies. I was ignorant of the history. Well, I based my designs on what you accomplished with your hotrods. Your fast twists and the long for caliber conicals in my concept of carbines is a fusion of your ground work. Again, I apologize for attributing wrongly.

What is certain is that, so far, it is working out. If the weather cooperates, next week is some accuracy testing. I have accumulated bullets of various types to try which has complicated things as I ultimately have a hunter's focus on results. As some of the bullets are in short supply, when found I have purchased at least 150 if not 200. If they don't perform well, then it will be bargain basement sale time for the balance.

The guns are made (less one barrel that I am waiting on Mr Hoyt to return... 22" 54 cal 1:32 twist but that is more of an extra ), bullets, powder, primers and lube are gathered.

So in short, the parents of the Thumper Carbines are the Hotrods of Idaho Ron and Val Forgetts hard hitting larger bore gun with a bunch of uncles and aunts of lube and bullets from Idaho Lewis and my overactive desire for an accurate to 125 yard powerful elk and deer gun in a carbine format and with luck a lower 48 Grizzly.

chorizo said:

I recently received a brick of Idaho Lewis' Modified NASA lube. Reading some of his old posts and over at his old forum, he liked it thin and sticky, claiming (and I don't doubt him) that thin is more accurate.. The smell reminded me of something, but couldn't place it.

Upon investigating his modification I found that it is synthetic 2 cycle motor oil! Approximately 5 ozs per pound of NASA. I immediately connected smell with formula. Now that doesn't jive with all the hoopla about "natural, non-petroleum based" lubes. As Gen Ripper said, "How does that fit with your post-war communist conspiracy". I don't know what was in the NASA lube. (~ Lubes ~)

So I decided, WTH, I am going to try that too. So I took 1 lb of my hard lube of mutton tallow 1 part to 5 parts beeswax and 1 part solid ALOX lube and a tablespoon of olive oil and added 2.5 ozs of synthetic 2 cycle oil to it and bricked it up. While it isn't NASA lube (more like Basco sheepherder lube) It is going to get a try out on some REAL 50 cal 320 gr and some REAL 58 cal 444 gr in a heads up comparison to Idaho Lewis lube.

According to Lewis, thin is better for accuracy. As I tin these up anyway, it should not matter. We shall see.

IdahoLewis quote: " I have found a Thinner lube to be Superior to Thicker. I like it SOFT, where it will just hold in the Grooves. Place an 1/8” Wool Felt Wad (Oversize) Between the Powder and Bullet lubed as i just spoke of, It just Doesn’t get any better than that"

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I use alox.
Once

Rawhide67 said:

I started a thread about a year ago when I sent a barrel off to Bob Hoyt to have a fast twist for a conical bullet cut in it.

I'm not sure now if it was Lewis or Ron that replied and had been posting at the time. One of them weighed in as I had posted questions gone about my choice to go with a .375 caliber instead of the usual .45. Trying to keep my fillings intact. And, I had access to existing molds to work with. Ending up making a sizing die and doing a little research on paper patching bullets

It's not quite done or ready to shoot, but I'm picking away at it. Life sometimes gets in the way.

Hopefully, we will regain some lost members who have been pushed out by the crotchety argumentative crowd. There is so much information disappearing daily, these guys have generally been around a while to amass the information and experience that they have.

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What gets me is the uninformed ignorance and the aggressive desire to spread that liberally about coupled with repeating myth and fallacies as well as NOT reading all of the posted material prior to posting. Arguments based on facts or at least with some foundation of reality and contrary points of view with reasoned thought out points I love to hear but I have been around guns and know enough to know when I hear bs and uninformed opinion vomited out as fact.

You guys know that your just reinventing the wheel right?

In the 1874 Creedmoor match the Irish were shooting muzzleloaders.

French Colonial said:

You guys know that your just reinventing the wheel right?

In the 1874 Creedmoor match the Irish were shooting muzzleloaders.

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Not with guns that had hunting sights, with 22 to 24" barreled carbines with hunting bullets to kill deer, elk and Grizzly they weren't. Why do you ask?

If anything I am building and improving on Val Forgett's guns he designed and used in Africa. What I am trying to do is get improved accuracy out of carbine barrels that shoot heavier hunting bullets. Forgett's desire was a POWERFUL short range gun. My focus is a medium range gun with adequate accuracy and power out to 125 yards and to do that I am drawing on Idaho Ron's hotrod concept. A different use, with a different tool with different set of parameters and goals. If anything, more like a Jaeger rifle than a target rifle.

Again, I have melded concepts from so many sources to achieve my specific goal that I have also ended up blending them in my mind.

So as not to slight anybody, especially those who have gone to such hard work over the years then shared it:

Idaho Ron..."hotrods" and their twist rates and heavy conicals
Idaho Lewis...bullets and lube
Val Forgett...concept and fine grain powder in large bores
Relic Shooter...looking at and discussing with him his Jaeger rifles and years upon years of experience
Dale Allen Raby....powder/velocity/burn calculation links
SDSmlf...buildup and reinforcement of stocks to withstand recoil
and I am sure many others; as well as my over-active imagination and desire to develop what I want.

No reinvention, rather a refinement/variation development and fusion of various concepts for a specific need and goal. I am not adverse to and willingly use proven concepts and hardware that others have invested time and energy to achieve my different goals. I stand on the shoulders of others, I will readily admit.

This thread will give you a better idea of what I am trying to accomplish
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...arbine-velocity-results-chronographed.159742/
This thread will give you further background

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/58-cal-carbine-by-mr-hoyt-in-wmc-stock.158415/page-3
Irish Creedmore gun


Thumpers

French Colonial said:

You guys know that your just reinventing the wheel right?

In the 1874 Creedmoor match the Irish were shooting muzzleloaders.

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Absolutely, not expecting to break new ground. Just having fun. I enjoy putting the projects together, the components, the new loading procedures, and…. Seeing just how bad I shoot anyway.

I had the Investarms 50 cal Hawken anyway ($75 purchase). Overall very nice gun with decent wood, but very neglected barrel that wouldn’t shoot. Had to do something with it. This is what I came up with after seeing a video posted by one of the Idaho guys shooting what I believe was a TC Hawken.

chorizo said:

I recently received a brick of Idaho Lewis' Modified NASA lube. Reading some of his old posts and over at his old forum, he liked it thin and sticky, claiming (and I don't doubt him) that thin is more accurate.. The smell reminded me of something, but couldn't place it.

Upon investigating his modification I found that it is synthetic 2 cycle motor oil! Approximately 5 ozs per pound of NASA. I immediately connected smell with formula. Now that doesn't jive with all the hoopla about "natural, non-petroleum based" lubes. As Gen Ripper said, "How does that fit with your post-war communist conspiracy". I don't know what was in the NASA lube. (~ Lubes ~)

So I decided, WTH, I am going to try that too. So I took 1 lb of my hard lube of mutton tallow 1 part to 5 parts beeswax and 1 part solid ALOX lube and a tablespoon of olive oil and added 2.5 ozs of synthetic 2 cycle oil to it and bricked it up. While it isn't NASA lube (more like Basco sheepherder lube) It is going to get a try out on some REAL 50 cal 320 gr and some REAL 58 cal 444 gr in a heads up comparison to Idaho Lewis lube.

According to Lewis, thin is better for accuracy. As I tin these up anyway, it should not matter. We shall see.

IdahoLewis quote: " I have found a Thinner lube to be Superior to Thicker. I like it SOFT, where it will just hold in the Grooves. Place an 1/8” Wool Felt Wad (Oversize) Between the Powder and Bullet lubed as i just spoke of, It just Doesn’t get any better than that"

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NASA lube is new to me. What is it?

It was to me too....I read about it on Idaho Lewis' forum and his modification to it to make it less viscous. Lewis said it made a huge difference in accuracy. Two 2.6 ozs of Stihl synthetic 2 cycle motor oil to one lb of NASA lube.

I do not know the formulation, but I know where you can get it. ~ Lubes ~

I was lucky enough to get a 1 lb brick of the Idaho Lewis formulation from a fellow member along with some bullets that he cast and others he had to sell.

I also formulated some myself. one part mutton tallow/five parts beeswax/one part solid ALOX lube/2 tablespoons olive oil (which I will omit in new formulation)/one 2.6 oz bottle of Homelite 2 cycle. If that works close to what the modified NASA lube gives me, I will make my own (but substitute the Stihl for Homelite)

BP guys are using SPG. I’m going to try some of that as patch lube.

BP cartridge guys.

Great,. but this thread is NOT about patch lube, rather conical lube for the grooves, but thanks for weighing in, I guess.

SPG has been brought up and Idaho Lewis felt that the modified NASA was a better lube in his experience. I sure Idaho Ron could add some to that conversation.

chorizo said:

Great,. but this thread is NOT about patch lube, rather conical lube for the grooves, but thanks for weighing in, I guess.

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SPG is bullet lube.