Real Hawken or not?

warbike39 · Mar 23, 2023

I found this rifle many many years ago hidden in the attic of an old home I bought in New Mexico. I am trying to confirm if it is a real Samuel Hawken gun. It appears to be either a .38 or .40 caliber. I have kept it wrapped up all these years exactly as I found it. Hidden with it were two old powder horns (one old and small and one larger and unfinished) also a small brass tin containing round lead balls, a small pliers like mold device for making bullets and a spoon for pouring lead with a corn cob handle.
Thanks for any help.
Dave

Eric Krewson · Mar 24, 2023

It would take more pictures, full length, nose cap etc. Did you polish the trigger guard? That is a no-no for collectable rifles.

Here is a real Hawken, I noticed from looking through the images that trigger guards very, one has one like yours.

Rifleman1776 · Mar 24, 2023

As said, more and better pics are needed. An in person exam by a real expert would be best. Either way, a nice find.

VA Hawken · Mar 24, 2023

A nice find!

user 48679 · Mar 24, 2023

The hexagon bore shape/style tells me that it's likely a 180 ( +/-) year old gun.

Yes, by now the brass should have a dark brown patina, unless it was stored in an air-tight environment - was it well wrapped when you found it ?

FWIW, original S. Hawken rifles would bring extremely big money, today - most are now museum pieces.

The only things I found in my house after I bought it was an old stereo & a Daisy BB-gun - both hidden under the eaves , behind a knee wall

Grenadier1758 · Mar 24, 2023

There are a lot of S. Hawken stamps around. But the caliber is correct for a Hawken Squirrel rifle. The trigger guard is correct for a small caliber Hawken. I would have expected to see a snail rather than a drum for the percussion nipple. I can see if some Hawken experts have an opinion in about a week. Yes, we need some more pictures.

warbike39 · Mar 24, 2023

Rifleman1776 said:
As said, more and better pics are needed. An in person exam by a real expert would be best. Either way, a nice find.

Hi Rifleman, no I didn't polish or clean anything on the rifle. It is exactly as I found it over 20 years ago. I will include more pics.
Dave

warbike39 · Mar 24, 2023

A few more pics of my rifle.

warbike39 · Mar 24, 2023

Hawken pics. It appears to be either a .38 caliber or .40 caliber. Not sure how to measure it internally to be sure.

64Springer · Mar 24, 2023

The screw heads are perfect.

Whatever it is and who ever owned never felt the desire to dig into and bugger up the screws.

Unlike modern gun owners who rip a gun apart the second they get it to their gunsmithing kitchen table in a search for gremlins.

Great find. It smells authentic. But it doesn't have the wear I'd expect to see on a 200 year old rifle. Unless it was very rarely used.

warbike39 · Mar 24, 2023

64Springer said:
The screw heads are perfect.

Whatever it is and who ever owned never felt the desire to dig into and bugger up the screws.

Unlike modern gun owners who rip a gun apart the second they get it to their gunsmithing kitchen table in a search for gremlins.

Great find.

The house I bought and found it in was built in the 20s in the four corners of new Mexico. The old couple had owned 3 different trading posts in the 50s ( one on the jicarilla apache reservation, one on the Navajo reservation and one down south near Chaco Canyon. I found old receipt books of theirs where they had bought 7 Colt Army Revolvers from local Indians and paid them $5 each for them in the 50s. Along with the rifle were two powder horns, a brass container of lead balls, a small plier mold device for possibly making lead balls and an old large spoon with pouring lip for lead and it has a corn cob handle. The old man had died in 1965 and the huge shop with the house hadn't been opened since. When my son and I cut all the vines off it and winches the shop door open with my jeep winch there was an almost completely restored Conestoga wagon inside.
We also found two large jars full of very old silver coaches hidden amongst hundred of old jars of fruit in the root cellar.
Dave

64Springer · Mar 24, 2023

A golden goose dropped a lucky golden horseshoe and it hit you in the head.

Great story.

The hardcore collectors on this sight will let you know who can positively identify that rifle.

I would assume there's a Hawken Historical Society somewhere in America.

2 shots · Mar 24, 2023

bingo

warbike39 · Mar 24, 2023

64Springer said:
A golden goose dropped a lucky golden horseshoe and it hit you in the head.

Great story.

The hardcore collectors on this sight will let you know who can positively identify that rifle.

I would assume there's a Hawken Historical Society somewhere in America.

I was indeed fortunate to find all the stuff but I did search really deep or it wouldn't have been found.
Dave

springfield art · Mar 24, 2023

64Springer said:
The screw heads are perfect.

Whatever it is and who ever owned never felt the desire to dig into and bugger up the screws.

Unlike modern gun owners who rip a gun apart the second they get it to their gunsmithing kitchen table in a search for gremlins.

Great find. It smells authentic. But it doesn't have the wear I'd expect to see on a 200 year old rifle. Unless it was very rarely used.

Not all old rifles got a whole lot of use. This thing is amazing, what a great report. The guys who wrote the book on Hawkins' listed in the NMLRA website are pretty much the experts on these.

LongWalker · Mar 24, 2023

I've handled/examined maybe a half-dozen original Hawkens produced for the local market. I can't recall one with a drum rather than patent breech. The buttplate looks much narrower than the rifles I've examined, but the pics are shot at screwy angles and it is hard to tell. From the muzzle at least, the rifling looks correct. The nosecap and toeplate don't look right, but I'm comparing them to a small sample size.

springfield art · Mar 24, 2023

Maybe it's something put together back in the day around an available Hawken barrel?

warbike39 · Mar 24, 2023

springfield art said:
Not all old rifles got a whole lot of use. This thing is amazing, what a great report. The guys who wrote the book on Hawkins' listed in the NMLRA website are pretty much the experts on these.

Yeah I agree, perhaps the stock has been refinished years ago? Appears to be walnut to me.
Dave

warbike39 · Mar 24, 2023

They did use walnut stocks other than curly maple, that I have confirmed.

64Springer · Mar 24, 2023

warbike39 said:
Yeah I agree, perhaps the stock has been refinished years ago? Appears to be walnut to me.
Dave

It is walnut.

Real Hawken or not?

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