Real Hawken or not?

flconch53 · Mar 25, 2023

Notchy Bob said:
I took another look at the photos in post #22. I think the "unfinished" horn may have been a "blowing horn," used for signaling and calling in the dogs. My vision is not great, but the inside of the cut end of the horn appears to be cupped like the mouthpiece of a brass instrument (bugle, trumpet, French horn...). If you agree, maybe try it and hear how it sounds!

Was there a finished powder horn, also? If it has already been shown, I missed it. I was engrossed in the rifle.

Notchy Bob

That was my 1st reaction

nchawkeye · Mar 25, 2023

A couple of more observations, square patches, look to be linen and the powder measure has been filled with something, maybe candle wax to adjust to the proper powder charge...Take one of those balls, put it in the mold and see if it fits, if so, it went with that gun...

Art Caputo · Mar 25, 2023

Surely resembles a Hawken Squirrel rifle to me as well. Check out the bottom rifle, #5 at (I believe), the Cody Museum, Wy. If it’s authentic it is an incredible find!!!

sussexmuzllodr · Mar 25, 2023

To be secreted in such a fashion. Someone had the foresight and the future value of such an item. And not to mention it to anyone adds to the mystery.

OldMaineWoodsman · Mar 25, 2023

Lots of good info and advice here. I'll just add this:

It needs to be physically examined by a knowledgeable, reputable person to be authenticated. Images are nice, but all you can ever really get out of images is "it appears to be."

Rifles like this one are why we miss guys like Don Stith.

Just my opinion for what it is worth.

flconch53 · Mar 25, 2023

Art Caputo said:
Surely resembles a Hawken Squirrel rifle to me as well. Check out the bottom rifle, #5 at (I believe), the Cody Museum, Wy. If it’s authentic it is an incredible find!!!
View attachment 209295 View attachment 209296

The difference is the 1 in the museum has a snail not a drum.

Art Caputo · Mar 25, 2023

flconch53 said:
The difference is the 1 in the museum has a snail not a drum.

Yes I had to zoom in at that to get a close look, but couldn’t really tell from the resolution of the picture. It’s surely not the same design as the top 4 rifles and seems to have a drum-like shape…similar to the OP’s pictures….been looking for some better pics of the Hawken Squirrel rifles.

Patched · Mar 25, 2023

I claim no expert status…only a 50 year passionate obsession of the Hawken brand.

Several things on this rifle scream authentic Hawken.
The stampings, the crescent solder showing under the rib at the muzzle, the “later” Sam style lock panels and cheek rest, the butt plate looks very similar to 2 other known Hawken squirrel rifles (with the longer Ohio style heel).
This rifle appears to me to be the most inexpensive product available at the time for the local trade. Perhaps built by an employee in the Hawken shop of leftover or otherwise inexpensive parts…there’s no cheaper way to address the breech than a threaded drum and nipple.

Looks authentic from the pictures and I can’t think of a good reason to fake a Hawken squirrel rifle before 1975.

my 2 cents

Mark E. Prickett · Mar 25, 2023

This is a great thread. What great history these item's have. I think we all could agree that item's like this speak to us.

DiMarco_Mercantile · Mar 25, 2023

warbike39 said:
The house I bought and found it in was built in the 20s in the four corners of new Mexico. The old couple had owned 3 different trading posts in the 50s ( one on the jicarilla apache reservation, one on the Navajo reservation and one down south near Chaco Canyon. I found old receipt books of theirs where they had bought 7 Colt Army Revolvers from local Indians and paid them $5 each for them in the 50s. Along with the rifle were two powder horns, a brass container of lead balls, a small plier mold device for possibly making lead balls and an old large spoon with pouring lip for lead and it has a corn cob handle. The old man had died in 1965 and the huge shop with the house hadn't been opened since. When my son and I cut all the vines off it and winches the shop door open with my jeep winch there was an almost completely restored Conestoga wagon inside.
We also found two large jars full of very old silver coaches hidden amongst hundred of old jars of fruit in the root cellar.
Dave

That’s the dream right there, finding all sorts of history in an old home! Thank you for sharing.

Splitear · Mar 25, 2023

Beautiful!

Kabulrocks · Mar 25, 2023

The JM Davis Gun Museum in Claremore, OK has one of the Hawken rifles made for the local St. Louis trade, and other than the drum, and the wood species it is identical to yours. The rifle in the museum is maple.
I believe you have an authentic Hawken. If at all possible, take it to the Hawken Classic and have it examined by Robert Woodfill and the others who have seriously studied the Hawkens for decades.
Below are the pictures of the museum rifle. I took a detailed video of a Hawken “squirrel“ rifle at last years Classic but it is too big to post here.

Kabulrocks · Mar 25, 2023

This is the text displayed with the rifle.

Kabulrocks · Mar 25, 2023

Art Caputo said:
Surely resembles a Hawken Squirrel rifle to me as well. Check out the bottom rifle, #5 at (I believe), the Cody Museum, Wy. If it’s authentic it is an incredible find!!!
View attachment 209295 View attachment 209296

That is actually a display at the 2022 Hawken Classic. It was an awesome collection of Hawken rifles.

OldMaineWoodsman · Mar 25, 2023

Kabulrocks said:
That is actually a display at the 2022 Hawken Classic. It was an awesome collection of Hawken rifles.

Thank you for confirming this. I would have been incredibly disappointed if the Davis Museum was displaying any firearms in this manner.

Frontier's · Mar 25, 2023

Look at the huge gap where the lock and drum meet. I'd suspect a cut down barrel and a simple drum replacement. No hawken builder would have left such sloppy work like that, especially with the hawken name attached to it.

Herb · Mar 25, 2023

I have seen and studied closely more than 50 original Hawkens, including the Bridger Hawken in my avatar at left. I believe this is an original Sam Hawken "St Louis squirrel rifle", made for the local trade. I believe it is as made and has not been cut down. It has some unusual features for a local gun, including the drum and nipple. It closely matches the J.M. Davis Gun Museum Hawken Kabulrocks posted. I note a stout ramrod and a long length of pull. I am not an authority and my comments do not authenticate this as a Hawken. I do not know who could authenticate this as a Hawken, but I am absolutely certain it is an unmodified original. You can take that to the bank. Oops- just saw Frontier's post of the drum not matching the lock plate cutout. That is a modification I can't explain. It looks like it was made that way.

SmokepoleSam · Mar 25, 2023

If you look at all the lock pictures you will see that there is no space under the drum, it Is just a shadow from the angle of the light. I can't help with this identification of the gun.

Stumbling Buffalo · Mar 25, 2023

Warbike, as a 2nd, I believe you should plan a trip with the rifle and extras to the Hawken Classic in August. See you there!

Frontier's · Mar 25, 2023

Got on the computer and can see that now.

Real Hawken or not?

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