1851 Navy Gregorelli and Uberti

Smokey Plainsman · Dec 12, 2023

A lot of these very early replicas have become a bit popular for collectors.

I have no idea why since the first batches typically had abysmal quality control and durability issues.

The modern ones are far better made.

Bad Karma · Dec 13, 2023

Slvrsrfng said:
79 does not match the serial at all. BUT, I took it apart and gave it a great cleaning yesterday. The previous owner must not have cleaned it in YEARS! During my cleaning, I notice "79" stamped on almost every major component. So I'm guessing the cylinder is the original which is great news! Here are some pics.

79 is an assembly number.

Slvrsrfng · Dec 13, 2023

Bad Karma said:
79 is an assembly number.

Cool, thank you very much for that!

Hawk54 · Dec 14, 2023

I have a Navy Arms G.U. marked 1851 made in 1960 and it has a 60 stamped on the parts. Coincidence?

Loiner1965 · Jun 19, 2024

Hawk54 said:
I have a Navy Arms G.U. marked 1851 made in 1960 and it has a 60 stamped on the parts. Coincidence?

Hi
I just bought one today over here in the uk
Xv1 date code and serial number in the 1800s
Very nice condition but a little end shake but not measured it as yet
It’s the brass frame version but no cracks or anything on it
Very nice revolver

Loiner1965 · Jun 20, 2024

measured cylinder/barrel gap at 14 thou. Revolver looks hardly used but i will post pics

45D · Jun 20, 2024

Loiner1965 said:
measured cylinder/barrel gap at 14 thou. Revolver looks hardly used but i will post pics

That's huge!! Should be a quarter of that! Is the wedge in as far as it will go?

Mike

Loiner1965 · Jun 20, 2024

45D said:
That's huge!! Should be a quarter of that! Is the wedge in as far as it will go?

Mike

Yes I’ve tapped it in too….
This is my first open top revolver but am familiar with issues with them
It’s brass frame but no damage or cracks anywhere …. Like it to be a shooter but if it isn’t I am not fussed as I have 3 other revolvers
Any ideas how I can close the gap ?
Assembled revolver without cylinder and it’s fine and meets up perfectly

Loiner1965 · Jun 20, 2024

Loiner1965 said:
Yes I’ve tapped it in too….
This is my first open top revolver but am familiar with issues with them
It’s brass frame but no damage or cracks anywhere …. Like it to be a shooter but if it isn’t I am not fussed as I have 3 other revolvers
Any ideas how I can close the gap ?
Assembled revolver without cylinder and it’s fine and meets up perfectly

Hi mike
I removed the wedge securing screw and tapped the wedge in and now the gap is a tight 8 thou

Loiner1965 · Jun 20, 2024

Loiner1965 said:
Hi mike
I removed the wedge securing screw and tapped the wedge in and now the gap is a tight 8 thou

45D · Jun 20, 2024

Sorry, didn't mean to leave you hanging!
Several things to look at-
- Is the arbor loose? ( check with a vice or a pair of pliers . . . not just your fingers).
- Is the wedge correct or has it been "fitted" a little too much?
- The rear of the wedge slot in the arbor should be further back than the wedge slot in the barrel assy. If it's not, your just driving the wedge in the arbor slot with no effect on the barrel assy.
- how about the "recoil ring" (what the cylinder backs up to) ? Is it imprinted with the nipple cutouts?

Just some ideas . . . Maybe some pictures will help find your problem.

Mike

Loiner1965 · Jun 22, 2024

45D said:
Sorry, didn't mean to leave you hanging!
Several things to look at-
- Is the arbor loose? ( check with a vice or a pair of pliers . . . not just your fingers).
- Is the wedge correct or has it been "fitted" a little too much?
- The rear of the wedge slot in the arbor should be further back than the wedge slot in the barrel assy. If it's not, your just driving the wedge in the arbor slot with no effect on the barrel assy.
- how about the "recoil ring" (what the cylinder backs up to) ? Is it imprinted with the nipple cutouts?

Just some ideas . . . Maybe some pictures will help find your problem.

Mike

Hi mike
Was reading up on this subject and a knowledgeable chap wrote his new brass framed revolver had the same 14 thou gap
His remedy was to slowly remove metal from the end of the arbor , then do the same to the frame by removing the 2 steel pins each time checking the gap .
He then put a blob of weld in the arbor slot and filed to suit .
He mention another trick for up and down cylinder play which he placed a thin shim of metal between the trigger spring and bolt stop to force it up more on full cock .
He also smears bore butter on rear of cylinder and on the brass ring to cushion recoil
Very interesting reading
I will test fire just two rounds this weekend at only 15 gns bp and see how it shoots and then decide what further action if needed
Many thanks for your replies

Smokerr · Jun 23, 2024

Mike:

Could we get some idea of the minimum of offset on the slots? I know it can range but for a quick ballpark would be great.

Also, is .008 too much gap? From what I have read its on the outer limit but less perfect than assess what you have and a need to adjust.

45D · Jun 23, 2024

Loiner1965 said:
Hi mike
Was reading up on this subject and a knowledgeable chap wrote his new brass framed revolver had the same 14 thou gap
His remedy was to slowly remove metal from the end of the arbor , then do the same to the frame by removing the 2 steel pins each time checking the gap .
He then put a blob of weld in the arbor slot and filed to suit .
He mention another trick for up and down cylinder play which he placed a thin shim of metal between the trigger spring and bolt stop to force it up more on full cock .
He also smears bore butter on rear of cylinder and on the brass ring to cushion recoil
Very interesting reading
I will test fire just two rounds this weekend at only 15 gns bp and see how it shoots and then decide what further action if needed
Many thanks for your replies

That guys name was probably "Rifle" . . . .
Anyway, an early (1960) that I worked on recently had a correct arbor length (proves Uberti could do it but forgot!).

Smokerr said:
Mike:

Could we get some idea of the minimum of offset on the slots? I know it can range but for a quick ballpark would be great.

Also, is .008 too much gap? From what I have read its on the outer limit but less perfect than assess what you have and a need to adjust.

You can't "measure" endshake without the wedge installed. Yes, .008" is a bit much . . . I like .003" much better for reliability as well as cleanliness

Have no idea about offsets with slots . . . never had any reason to go down that road but I'm sure manufacturing problems happen. Today's examples are so much better than earlier examples with consistency (since around 2011/12).

Mike

Smokerr · Jun 23, 2024

Thanks Mike

Loiner1965 · Jun 24, 2024

Smokerr said:
Thanks Mike

Just an update
Shot mine this weekend just to see if it goes bang
Only loaded 2 cylinders with 15gn Swiss and ball
Used cci number 10 caps which fitted the best from my collection as caps over here in uk can be scarce now.
Distance was 15 yds and it went bang and shot point of aim but slightly to left which could be me and both shots were an inch apart .
I will now try the same load next week but fill cylinder with cow and try again
Surprised the sights were ok with my eyes but felt completely natural shooting it .
It’s now stripped and will be cleaned thoroughly but it looked like it’s not been shot recently ….. maybe years
Only issue was the mainspring was loose and the roller on hammer is seized but no problem

Smokerr · Jun 24, 2024

The sight radius is a help for old eyes. Sights are poor but they stand out better.

I found a device called an Eyepal. Its a peep sight circle (3/4 inch across?) that is static cling to glasses with a small peep type hole in it. Basically its a peep sight on your glasses (static cling fades so I put it on an old pair of glasses and leave it there, in a case that stays in my range gun box).

There are two of them, one for rifles with a smaller hole. One key to it working is a clean cut edge. You can make your own but hard to get that clean an edge on anything.

It helps a lot. Something about peep sights worked better anyway and don't ask me to explain it. I shot a lot of 1917 Eddystone 3006 and they have a great peep sight setup.

One downside is if you are shooting into the sun it washes out. Our pistol range has sun right at it latter in the day, so I shoot the BP and other unemtni8onsals in the morning and move over to the rifle range (or go home) in the afternoon.

Its what has allowed me to shoot pistols again decently. I built up an odd assortment over the years and now the 4 BP pistols. The ROA is better than the 47 Walker as it has vastly better sights though not as long a sight radius.

I opened up the rear notch on the 47 Walker and that with the Eyepal gives me a decent sight picture.

Loiner1965 · Jun 24, 2024

Smokerr said:
The sight radium is a help for old eyes. Sights are poor but they stand out better.

I found a device called an Eyepal. Its a peep sight circle (3/4 inch across?) that is static cling to glasses with a small peep type hole in it. Basically its a peep sight on your glasses (static cling fades so I put it on an old pair of glasses and leave it there, in a case that stays in my range gun box).

There are two of them, one for rifles with a smaller hole. One key to it working is a clean cut edge. You can make your own but hard to get that clean an edge on anything.

It helps a lot. Something about peep sights worked better anyway and don't ask me to explain it. I shot a lot of 1917 Eddystone 3006 and they have a great peep sight setup.

One downside is if you are shooting into the sun it washes out. Our pistol range has sun right at it latter in the day, so I shoot the BP and other unemtni8onsals in the morning and move over to the rifle range (or go home) in the afternoon.

Its what has allowed me to shoot pistols again decently. I built up an odd assortment over the years and now the 4 BP pistols. The ROA is better than the 47 Walker as it has vastly better sights though not as long a sight radius.

I opened up the rear notch on the 47 Walker and that with the Eyepal gives me a decent sight picture.

I only have 4 bp revolvers
Ruger old army...... best sight picture by far but not the most accurate yet
Roger and spencer with lothar barrel but top strap groove sights.... hardest revolver for me to aim but belonged to my deceased mate so always be a keeper . Groups around 2 inch at 25 yds
Pietta 1858 target ..... old work horse and the most used and surprisingly accurate ....on par with the roger and spencer
Navy arms gu 1851 .... now I thought this would be the hardest for me to shoot with the hammer having the groove and a bead for the front sight but I can actually shoot it easily . I have astimigatism and eye issues so open sights are a challenge at the best of times .
Shooting my verguiero takes a lot of effort as the rear sight is so low to the action I cannot focus on it easily .
Love the sport so I keep plodding on

Smokerr · Jun 24, 2024

I was a pistol shooter in my youth. Only rifle shooting was sight in to go hunting. Rarely more than 10 shots in a year.

I got good with a pistol. Gravitated to a S&W 41 magnum.

My wife gave me the ASP and it finally nagged at me to take it out and see what it was about (bad experience with grease and black powder back in the 70s for me and I shot it no more than twice and sold it).

I took the ASP down just to shoot it, sight distance was enough I could squint ok. Got me to thinking so I tried the other guns with the Eyepal and it worked decently.

47 Walker is good due to that long barrel but also with the hammer back you get another inch or two maybe.

One brother had Cataracts and got that fixed, it fixed his astigmatism as well. If a scope was a hair off true vertical it made him nuts.

Of course I don't give medical advice but its worth a query.

My younger brother also has astigmatism pretty bad and he said the Eyepal did help.

I can shoot a Model of 1917 Eddystone at 75 yards bare eye ok. We did some work on the peep aperture (filled it in a bit) and that helped.

One option with some older rifles is a scope adapter. I have em on two rifles and it allows me to shoot them at our max 105 yards.

Loiner1965 · Jun 24, 2024

Smokerr said:
I was a pistol shooter in my youth. Only rifle shooting was sight in to go hunting. Rarely more than 10 shots in a year.

I got good with a pistol. Gravitated to a S&W 41 magnum.

My wife gave me the ASP and it finally nagged at me to take it out and see what it was about (bad experience with grease and black powder back in the 70s for me and I shot it no more than twice and sold it).

I took the ASP down just to shoot it, sight distance was enough I could squint ok. Got me to thinking so I tried the other guns with the Eyepal and it worked decently.

47 Walker is good due to that long barrel but also with the hammer back you get another inch or two maybe.

One brother had Cataracts and got that fixed, it fixed his astigmatism as well. If a scope was a hair off true vertical it made him nuts.

Of course I don't give medical advice but its worth a query.

My younger brother also has astigmatism pretty bad and he said the Eyepal did help.

I can shoot a Model of 1917 Eddystone at 75 yards bare eye ok. We did some work on the peep aperture (filled it in a bit) and that helped.

One option with some older rifles is a scope adapter. I have em on two rifles and it allows me to shoot them at our max 105 yards.

Just had right eye cataract done but astigmatism was too bad to correct but I shoot left handed due to this reason . Doesn’t effect me when shooting pistols . I tried a pistol scope on the Verguiero but it wasn’t stable enough and was not constant . They are different to the k98 . I am great shooting my friends lee enfield mk 4 as it’s got a peep sight . All my other rifles are scoped and my underlever .44 mag as tru optics on and they brilliant .
I tried the cheap version of the eye pal but it wasn’t successful

1851 Navy Gregorelli and Uberti

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