Ball-Patch work-up advice

I have a heavily-used 35-year old .50 cal rifled flintlock. New to me.

I've been shooting a .490 ball with 0.015" pillow ticking strips, cut at the muzzle. 50 grains of powder. After about 10 shots, I really have to bounce the ramrod to get the ball down the last 6 inches. Someone said my spent patches looked okay.

I tried 0.018" pillow ticking patches, but it was pretty difficult to start the ball and ram it down the barrel. I also tried 0.020" but I had to use a metal range rod the ram the ball down.

Now I am trying 0.495 balls with 0.015" pillow ticking. Ramming doesn't feel any different from .490 balls. Here are my spent patches from my first 10 shots down a clean barrel.

Advice?

Your 35 year old rifle probably has some pitting at the breech. Fouling is building up as you shoot and by the 10th round there is enough build up to make the seating of the patched ball difficult. @Harry Marinakis should wipe the bore after about 5 shots to remove fouling and restore ease of loading.

@Grenadier1758 is right. Your patches look fine. It may not even be rough towards the breech. It's just an area that tends to foul more.

Sometimes the "no wipe between shots" is not a grail worth chasing.

Grenadier1758 said:

...should wipe the bore after about 5 shots to remove fouling and restore ease of loading.

Click to expand...

That's what I've been doing. Hoping to find a better patch-ball combo to avoid swabbing the barrel so often. Good insight on the pitting.

longcruise said:

Sometimes the "no wipe between shots" is not a grail worth chasing.

Click to expand...

Got it, especially with an old rifle.

Wipe between every shot until you have your load worked up.
Increase the powder to 65-70 grains

I've been experimenting with pre-lubed paper patching and I recommend that as a possible viable alternative to resolve the OP's situation. I've pre-lubed paper patched balls with both rifled and smoothbore and been fairly impressed with the results. As posted elsewhere in other threads.

Those patches look like they were loaded dry. Lightly saturate them with spit or Hoppes #9+ Black Powder Solvent and Patch Lube if you want to shoot all day and not have to wipe between shots. A carbon ring tends to build just above where the ball seats when using water-based lubes and it takes an extra grunt on the rod to seat that last quarter inch. When using animal grease lubes I don't get the carbon ring at all and seating all the way to the powder is easy but the last third of the muzzle end starts to foul out after 3-4 shots, requiring a simple spit patch wipe to keep shooting. Experiment and choose your evil.

The tightest ball/patch combination that you can load reasonably with the under-barrel rammer is usually good. Paper target matches are won with mallets and guided short starters and woodswalks are won with combinations that don't break the rammer after a dozen shots.

IanH said:

Those patches look like they were loaded dry. Lightly saturate them with spit or Hoppes #9+ Black Powder Solvent and Patch Lube if you want to shoot all day and not have to wipe between shots. A carbon ring tends to build just above where the ball seats when using water-based lubes and it takes an extra grunt on the rod to seat that last quarter inch. When using animal grease lubes I don't get the carbon ring at all and seating all the way to the powder is easy but the last third of the muzzle end starts to foul out after 3-4 shots, requiring a simple spit patch wipe to keep shooting. Experiment and choose your evil.

The tightest ball/patch combination that you can load reasonably with the under-barrel rammer is usually good. Paper target matches are won with mallets and guided short starters and woodswalks are won with combinations that don't break the rammer after a dozen shots.

Click to expand...

I've been using spit patches.

Will try soaking the pillow ticking strips in a lube.

#blackpowderbill said:

Increase the powder to 65-70 grains

Click to expand...

Why?

After wiping barrel with alcohol prior to first loading and firing, I use a moist patch to seat subsequent patch/ball. Pour in powder, start patch/ball, seat with moist patch. I use both sides of this seating patch.
(2 subsequent loads) You’ll withdraw some fouling, and any fouling pushed down the barrel, will be above the powder charge. Try it. I find this eliminates the need to swab the entire bore during a day long shoot.

Patches are too dry it appears..
Bear grease makes a good patch lube.
Among other things…

smo said:

Patches are too dry it appears..
Bear grease makes a good patch lube.
Among other things…

Click to expand...

I got lots of bear grease

65 to 70 grains will possibly make for a more complete burn of the powder load. If you get red Sulphur ashes speckled on your first cleaning patch when wiping after firing, you'll know that and along with increased accuracy it might be the sweet spot.

Bob

Harry Marinakis said:

I have a heavily-used 35-year old .50 cal rifled flintlock. New to me.

I've been shooting a .490 ball with 0.015" pillow ticking strips, cut at the muzzle. 50 grains of powder. After about 10 shots, I really have to bounce the ramrod to get the ball down the last 6 inches. Someone said my spent patches looked okay.

I tried 0.018" pillow ticking patches, but it was pretty difficult to start the ball and ram it down the barrel. I also tried 0.020" but I had to use a metal range rod the ram the ball down.

Now I am trying 0.495 balls with 0.015" pillow ticking. Ramming doesn't feel any different from .490 balls. Here are my spent patches from my first 10 shots down a clean barrel.

Advice?

View attachment 331490

Click to expand...

After watching the black powdered maniac load his flintlock, with nothing more than just a ramrod when I was having to use a mallet I thought there must be something easier. I increased my balls from .490 2 .495, cut my patches back from a .016-.018 to .010. I bought self lubricated patches from eastern Maine shooting supply, lubricated with their own lubricant. I should 45 grains 777 in percussion 50 caliber, and 55 grains black in my 50 caliber flintlock. Accuracy at 50 yards is pretty darn good, the only thing i shoot is paper turkeys, sometimes just cardboard, but I would not be afraid to whack a deer or whatever game is on my mind. I don't expect minute of angle accuracy from a flintlock or percussion shooting round lead balls that I make myself. I was shooting a Lyman micrometer adjust peep, which I thought was kind of dumb, and I went back to my own homemade peeps was a much larger hole then what they have, I can see through it, i can see around it, and around the target, and you know, for somebody 85 years old I don't do too bad.

Buckskinquin said:

After wiping barrel with alcohol prior to first loading and firing, I use a moist patch to seat subsequent patch/ball. Pour in powder, start patch/ball, seat with moist patch. I use both sides of this seating patch.
(2 subsequent loads) You’ll withdraw some fouling, and any fouling pushed down the barrel, will be above the powder charge. Try it. I find this eliminates the need to swab the entire bore during a day long shoot.

Click to expand...

This works! Exactly what I do. Prior to using this method I could hardly seat the third shot. I use Old Turkey Track on the patch under the ball and seat it with patch over a jag moistened with water/touch of dawn/ballistol solution. I can do 25 shots in matches with no swabbing between shots. And very good accuracy. 60g FFFg @ 50 yds, 75g @ 100 yds. in .50 cal Hawken.

I swab between every shot, but use drylubed patching, treated with a 7:1 Ballistol.and water solution. Sometimes, I'll use a wet patch lube like Mr Flintlocks and I can go 10 to 15 shots before loading gets tight.

What I have found, if it's hard to load after X number of shots, that means some degree of fouling has built up, making it tight. You want a CONSISTANT bore shot after shot for best accuracy. Swabbing between shots provides this. Just a damp patch, down and up 1 time.

It is possible to get multiple shots through a rifle without wiping between - I have done it - but it takes some experimentation. Like three months and hundreds of shots. Is it the most accurate method? Likely not. Does it make for more enjoyable outings? Yes.

I use .010" undersize balls (i.e. 0.530" in a 54 caliber) and 0.017" cotton mattress ticking.

Here is my preferred wax style lube I worked up over 20 years ago:

Stumpy's Moose Snot
A premium multi-shot between wiping (10+) patch lube stable over a wide temperature range.
SPECIFICALLY designed for use of patched round balls in a loading block

Beeswax 2 oz.
Castor Oil 8 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.

Conversions weight to volume:
1/2 oz. = 1 tbsp = 3 tsp
1 oz. = 2 tbsp = 6 tsp

Heat beeswax in a soup can set inside a pot of water. (A double-boiler. I keep my beeswax in a one pound coffee can and measure out what I need by melting it and pouring it into measuring cups). Add just enough water so the inner can does not begin to float (should be just short of the
lube level in the can). Heat the water to a low boil (simmer). In a separate can, add the castor oil and Murphy's oil soap
(cold). Once the beeswax is melted, swap the castor oil can in the pot of water for the beeswax. Add the beeswax to the oils. It will clump up. Stir with an ice tea spoon as the mixture heats up (***note** chopsticks work fine for stirring this and can be discarded after use). When it fully melts there will be a scum that floats to the top and just won't mix in. Be patient. DO NOT COOK THE MIXTURE. Once the solids are dissolved there is no need to heat further. Skim the scum off. Remove the mix from the heat and wipe the water off the outside (so it won't drip into
the container when you pour it out).

FINAL TOP SECRET STEP: Add a teaspoon of Murphy's Oil Soap and stir vigorously. This last step makes the lube frothy and smooth - really adds to the appearance, though it doesn't seem to matter to the function of the lube. Clamp the can in the jaws of a vice-grip pliers and pour into
the waiting tins. Allow to cool a half hour. Note: it if is a hinged tin - line the edge that has the hinges with a strip of aluminum foil so it
doesn't ooze out before it cools. I saved a bunch of Altoids and Kiwi shoe polish tins. To "age" them put them in a wood fire and after the paint is charred off wipe them down with motor oil on a rag. They look old (at least).

Recipe bookmarked.

I took all of yinz advice, and I went out to the shooting range in my backyard. It was challenging today at 9 a.m. - very hot (85 deg F) and humid (82%). I was sweating buckets just standing there shooting. Occasionally there was a misting rain. The powder was caking up in my pan and powder horn spouts, and I was getting a lot of hang fires. I wonder how much the weather played a role in my shooting results today.

In my original post, I showed a photo of my spent SPIT PATCHES.
Today I applied Wonder Lube to one pillow ticking strip, and bear grease to another pillow ticking strip.

0.495 balls instead of my regular 0.490 balls
50 grains of powder
0.015" pillow ticking strips

WONDER LUBE


BEAR GREASE


So today I was getting some fouling down at the breech area, as usual, but maybe not so bad as with spit patches. But I was getting some serious fouling 12 to 15 inches down the barrel, which has never been a problem before. I was really slamming the ramrod down to get the patch/ball past the fouling, and a few times I wondered if I was going to have to get my range rod.
When I swabbed the barrel because of the fouling at 12-15 inches, here is what I got:


SPIT PATCHES FROM MY ORIGINAL POST


WONDER LUBE PATCHES


BEAR GREASE PATCHES

Harry, I'm a firm believer in Stumpy's Moose Snot (post #17) when you don't want to use a liquid patch lube. With a 50gr. charge of FFg, I don't need to wipe the bore of my .50cal. Lyman GPR until I've fired 5 - 8 shots the very least, depending on ambient conditions. If you can stand using a liquid lube, saliva or homemade "moose milk" work even better as I really don't need to wipe the bore at all. Try it, you'll like it!