Pedersoli Brown Bess ?’s

Second-rate Marksman · Aug 6, 2024

Who is this James Kibler fellow, and why the keen interest in our opinions?

I think a Brown Bess offering by your company would be a fantastic idea and has the potential to be a huge success. Given the historical significance and the upcoming 250th anniversary, there’s bound to be increased interest and demand for such a product. This could be a unique opportunity to tap into a market that’s both historically rich and potentially lucrative— especially if done right (and I have no doubt your company would do it right). It could also enhance your brand’s reputation for quality and authenticity. You’ve got the potential to make history in the market as the first company to offer a Brown Bess kit at a reasonable price point that’s as close to the genuine article as one can possibly get without shelling out the money for the real McCoy.

As much as I enjoy my Pedersoli Bess, I’d dump it in a heartbeat for a Kibler model.

Flanders · Aug 6, 2024

James Kibler said:
I'm not at all in with the crowd that buys Besses, but have wondered if it would be a viable product for us to make. What do you all think? Do you think with the 250th year coming up there would be increased demand?

I would buy one!

sussexmuzllodr · Aug 6, 2024

Juice Jaws · Aug 6, 2024

sturmkatze said:
I think I paid $45 new a couple years ago on eBay.

That sounds about right to me, $150.00 seen high to me

CascadeRob · Aug 6, 2024

Juice Jaws said:
That sounds about right to me, $150.00 seen high to me

The mold is about $99 from TOW and the handles are $54.

TNGhost · Aug 6, 2024

James Kibler said:
I'm not at all in with the crowd that buys Besses, but have wondered if it would be a viable product for us to make. What do you all think? Do you think with the 250th year coming up there would be increased demand?

It is definitely one of the more popular muzzleloaders available at this point, the Pedersolis sell well and are widely available, though expensive (Pedersoli having a virtual monopoly).

The Indian gun distributors added the short land (second model) Bess as a result of a lot of requests, and have difficulty keeping them in stock due to demand.

You are only one good film on the American Revolution away from a sales boom and the 250-year anniversary approaching does increase the odds of that, (if we make it to 250 years). The 200-year anniversary did wonders, but the climate at the time will dictate the number of celebrations and coverage the 250th gets.

Smokey Plainsman · Aug 6, 2024

James Kibler said:
I'm not at all in with the crowd that buys Besses, but have wondered if it would be a viable product for us to make. What do you all think? Do you think with the 250th year coming up there would be increased demand?

Have you considered making something like an 1861 Springfield rifle musket? I’d imagine the NSSA and Civil War reenactors would be heavily interested.

As for a Brown Bess? I know I’d buy one in a heartbeat. But a Hawken of some kind would undoubtedly be a hit. There’s a big void in the market for a “proper” Hawken option. The classic half stock percussion would be very popular but I know lots of folks might enjoy a full stock flint variety too!

Also have you considered a pistol kit of some kind? I’d imagine a good return on them. They’d make a popular gift gun I’d bet.

Juice Jaws · Aug 6, 2024

CascadeRob said:
The mold is about $99 from TOW and the handles are $54.

Prices sure has skyrocket since I got into the game

Smokey Plainsman · Aug 6, 2024

TNGhost said:
It is definitely one of the more popular muzzleloaders available at this point, the Pedersolis sell well and are widely available, though expensive (Pedersoli having a virtual monopoly).

The Indian gun distributors added the short land (second model) Bess as a result of a lot of requests, and have difficulty keeping them in stock due to demand.

You are only one good film on the American Revolution away from a sales boom and the 250-year anniversary approaching does increase the odds of that, (if we make it to 250 years). The 200-year anniversary did wonders, but the climate at the time will dictate the number of celebrations and coverage the 250th gets.

I wouldn’t bet on a movie giving the same “Hawken effect” magic Bobby Redford brung in the 70s.

Revenant (the one where Leonardo DiCaprio is violated by a bear) didn’t spur a boom, and it won all kinds of awards and was highly popular.

barracudadave67 · Aug 6, 2024

A North West Trade gun from Kibler would be a real interesting entry into this market. Just think a Kibler North West Trade gun, Wow.

Dave

Smokey Plainsman · Aug 6, 2024

barracudadave67 said:
A North West Trade gun from Kibler would be a real interesting entry into this market. Just think a Kibler North West Trade gun, Wow.

Dave

Either that or a Fusil de Chasse.

The Euros and Indians seem to have the fair share of the Military Muzzleloaders Market (MMM).

I do enjoy how Jim seems more geared towards the civilian type firearms. A full stock flintlock J&S Hawken would be a dream gun for me personally.

TNGhost · Aug 6, 2024

Smokey Plainsman said:
I wouldn’t bet on a movie giving the same “Hawken effect” magic Bobby Redford brung in the 70s.

Revenant (the one where Leonardo DiCaprio is violated by a bear) didn’t spur a boom, and it won all kinds of awards and was highly popular.

Problem is these days that most "gun folks" have tuned out Hollywood given their track record for the last couple decades, and even if they do put out a decent movie, don't go to see it, or buy it figuring (and most times accurately) it's just more of the same.

While Jeremiah Johnson and even Patriot could be considered "wholesome" entertainment, Revenant, not so much.

Smokey Plainsman · Aug 6, 2024

TNGhost said:
Problem is these days that most "gun folks" have tuned out Hollywood given their track record for the last couple decades, and even if they do put out a decent movie, don't go to see it, or buy it figuring (and most times accurately) it's just more of the same.

While Jeremiah Johnson and even Patriot could be considered "wholesome" entertainment, Revenant, not so much.

That bear scene was hard to watch. Sure thought Big Winnie was gonna eat him for sure.

TNGhost · Aug 6, 2024

Smokey Plainsman said:
That bear scene was hard to watch. Sure thought Big Winnie was gonna eat him for sure.

What's needed is a rollicking adventure without the bias messaging BS and over the top darkness, maybe along the lines of Swiss Family Robinson or even the original Pirates of the Carribean.

That would appeal to more people, getting more people interested in period muzzleloading, which is what we're after.

dave_person · Aug 6, 2024

Hi Jim,
Yes, it would be wonderful if you made a King's musket kit. There is simply nothing out there except for custom made guns by knowledgeable makers for those wanting a Brown Bess that is historically correct and of the quality made by British ordnance. It is sad that no commercial reproduction made today would have passed any of the 18th century British ordnance inspections. They would never get to first base. There is a considerable customer base for Besses including reenactors, collectors and those just wanting a historical gun to own and shoot. My Braintree Hill shop is overwhelmed by requests to make King's muskets and associated guns. Our guns are made such that if you scratched and dented the stocks and rusted the iron parts they could be put in a case with originals and fit right in. We use part sets from TRS and they can produce fine guns but with work. But we cannot produce enough to meet demand and I don't want to be making muskets for the rest of my life. I have so many other more challenging projects to do. The 250th bump will last from 2025 until 2031, Lexington to Yorktown. That provides some time. The question becomes what pattern Bess?

dave

Tumbledown · Aug 6, 2024

James Kibler said:
I'm not at all in with the crowd that buys Besses, but have wondered if it would be a viable product for us to make. What do you all think? Do you think with the 250th year coming up there would be increased demand?

Not sure if there'd be enough for the cost.

Second-rate Marksman · Aug 6, 2024

Tumbledown said:
Not sure if there'd be enough for the cost.

I must respectfully disagree. The continued inclusion of the Brown Bess in Pedersoli’s line-up and the frequent sellouts at various retailers indicate strong and ongoing interest. This suggests that the cost of production is justified by the demand.

As Kibler’s offerings tend to be reasonably priced, I can see a lot of those in the reenactment community who’ve had to “settle” for Pedersolis and Indian-made varieties dump them for a Kibler.

FlinterNick · Aug 6, 2024

CascadeRob said:
Howdy folks. I have been wanting to purchase a Pedersoli Brown Bess, I’ve been looking at 1777 charlies also but I think the B.B desire is stronger.

Now this would be my first smoothie, and for those who have one I have some questions.

#1. How do you like it? Fun to shoot? Too heavy? Gripes?

#2. What’s your loadout? I will only be shooting round balls not cartridges. So what size are you using for RB, and patch. Or wadding?

#3. How much more “expensive” is it to shoot than smaller calibers? .735 round balls ain’t cheap in comparison, and a mold is about $150!

#4 Last question. What do I need to maintain it? Anything special? Or just a good ole fashion jag and cleaning patches?

Thank you for your input.

I personally do not like the newest ones that are out.

I would search around for a bicentennial navy arms gun.

Wncman · Aug 6, 2024

My experience with the Bess an Charliville are limited. The Charli seems more amiable.

Grenadier1758 · Aug 6, 2024

While I admit I sold my Pedersoli Brown Bess to get a Long Land Pattern musket that is much more appropriate for the F&I War. In truth, the Pedersoli Bess was generally accepted for some units and my unit did and still does allow new members to use their Pedersoli Besses while acknowledging that it is not correct for our unit. It's hard to find reliable Long Land Pattern muskets for our unit even when looking at the offerings from Loyalist Arms. My Loyalist Arms musket is a reliable as my Pedersoli Bess.

Now then I have to look at @CascadeRob"s needs for a Bess. One of the planned uses is for AWI reenacting and the Pedersoli Bess certainly is an acceptable firearm for most AWI representations, but don't take my word on that. That decision must be direction for weapons mandated by the unit.

So, if the planned uses are for mainly hunting, target shooting and a small percentage of AWI reenacting, then the Pedersoli is the choice.

Pedersoli Brown Bess ?’s

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