Snaphaunce Lock problems??

FedEx delivered my new to me rifle yesterday and there doesn’t seem to be a half or full cock with this lock… is this something that I need to do differently to cock the action vs a normal flintlock manual of arms?

Bedford County Doc said:

FedEx delivered my new to me rifle yesterday and there doesn’t seem to be a half or full cock with this lock… is this something that I need to do differently to cock the action vs a normal flintlock manual of arms?

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Dear Wiscoster . Your lock appears complete enough . There wouldn't Be an' half cock ' & to reach the full is often a haul the 'tail' of the cock should pop out once past the scear nose . They could be carried at rest & still have prime if the link is made to allow that (Seldom true of Moroccan ones ) No one will condemn you for adding an external 'Dog Catch ' so long as it dosnt impede the scear nose . I dont know the makers guess Indian? try with a file see ft any part is soft if so Ide case harden to lot (Bar the Springs )after its in the stock as you need the plate soft to affix your' side nails' (Bolts )generally three . Have fun interesting choice .
Regards Rudyard

Hi Doc

Congrats on the new gun. Please show us photos of it when you get a chance. Meantime, let me see if I can help. As Rudyard says, the lock looks complete.

The snaphaunce lock original design originates back to the late 16th Century. It uses a horizontal sear mechanism versus the later vertical sear of a flintlock. There is no safety notch. In fact there are no notches on the tumbler. If you look closely, you will see the front nose of the sear arm itself protrudes through a square-ish hole in the lock plate. Also note there is a bevel on the inside rear of the hammer. When the hammer is pulled back far enough towards full-cock, the nose of the sear will snap unto that bevel of the hammer. Once that sear catches the hammer, you're at the cocked position. When you pull the trigger bar to fire, the sear spring releases tension on the sear itself and the sear slides back into the lock plate as the hammer moves forward. What served as a safety while the gun was cocked was to leave the frizzen in the forward position until firing the gun was anticipated. When priming the pan, you can often do it in either the cocked or un-cocked position (preferably the later). After priming the pan cover has to be manually closed. The pan cover will open automatically upon firing from the push rod inside the lock.

It's a bit hard to explain in writing. Hope this helps. The snaphaunce lock pre-dates what we call the true flintlock by close to 100 years.

Rick

@rickystl Thanks very much for the excellent description of how these things actually work!! I can see where it was simple enough for the average no tech person of the day!! I’ve attached a few pictures below… The barrel is marked Anderson and it came out of San Antonio, TX
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Hi Doc

Thanks for the photos. "Anderson" Hmmm....I wonder if this is one of Brian Anderson's earlier builds. I looks like his work. The lock looks hand built, like the rest of the gun. Brian is retired from gun building now. But, I'll email him a Link to this Thread and let him comment, if he would. Would be great for you to know some earlier history, builder, etc. Stay tuned.

Rick

Interesting, as from San Antonio, TX … (after the collector passed away) … I too bought a half-stock rifle that Brian had built, but it wears his ‘tulip’ maker’s mark, not his name. (Note, a different gun w/ his mark is shown below.)

Maker’s Mark





Photos of the snaphaunce

Flint62Smoothie said:

Interesting, as from San Antonio, TX … (after the collector passed away) … I too bought a half-stock rifle that Brian had built, but it wears his ‘willow’ maker’s mark, not his name. (Note, a different gun w/ his mark is shown below.)

Maker’s Mark

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Photos of the snaphaunce

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loosely Scots if so few survive its anyone's guess .Nice Dragon .
Rudyard

Hi Flint

You can probably guess why I thought this might be one of Brian's builds. LOL The other reason was that the OP mentioned he got it from Texas. I remember Brian mentioning he lived in New Mexico for many years.
Remember a couple years ago another Forum member from TX posted an escopeta that he had bought at a local show ? Turned out it was one of Brian's earlier builds, which Brian confirmed.
So that's why I was guessing it might be one of Brian's builds.

Rick

I was hoping to find a maker’s mark under the pan but but - no joy - On the other hand. Here is a picture of Anderson’s signature on the rear of the lock…

What is the best way to load these suckers? Treat it like a Brown Bess?

Bedford County Doc said:

I was hoping to find a maker’s mark under the pan but but - no joy - On the other hand. Here is a picture of Anderson’s signature on the rear of the lock…

What is the best way to load these suckers? Treat it like a Brown Bess?

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Depends how you would treat a Brown Bess. You could use cartridges or make a Patron Or go with a collar of bandolers the'12 Apostle's' idea .beyond which its just black stuff first patch or wadding like any gun of that bore assuming its Bess size bore .Definatly Not for sucking .
Regards Rudyard

@Rudyard I would have considered using paper cartridges the easiest route. However, your call to use a bandolier is kind of intriguing! Did the musket-carrying infantry or hunters use a musket rest as the matchlock did? What is a "Patron?" What is the reference to 12 Apostles?

One of the period correct ways to carry powder is in a bandolier of pre measured vials. They were sometimes called 12 apostles https://historicjamestowne.org/collections/artifacts/bandolier/

Can be metal or wood. There are Etsy sellers and old guard manufacture (out of Poland I think).

BoomStick said:

One of the period correct ways to carry powder is in a bandolier of pre measured vials. They were sometimes called 12 apostles https://historicjamestowne.org/collections/artifacts/bandolier/

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FYI, historically they were NEVER called “12 Apostles” until someone in modern times coined the term …

Personally I wish it would stop. In fact, most historical originals were not even 12, but of anywhere from 8 to 14 ‘chargers’, which is the correct term for them.

@Flint62Smoothie is absolutely correct. The term was introduced in the 19th century. I met a couple "reenactors" at historic Jamestown doing musket demonstrations and they had incorrectly called them apostles. Given the obvious errors throughout the town, I should have known that was wrong as well. I have learned something new today.

Flint62Smoothie said:

FYI, historically they were NEVER called “12 Apostles” until someone in modern times coined the term …

Personally I wish it would stop. In fact, most historical originals were not even 12, but of anywhere from 8 to 14 ‘chargers’, which is the correct term for them.

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Dear Flint You might be right but can you prouve it ?I have no espesial need or desire to refute your observation but it isnt worth arguing about .

Bedford County Doc said:

@Rudyard I would have considered using paper cartridges the easiest route. However, your call to use a bandolier is kind of intriguing! Did the musket-carrying infantry or hunters use a musket rest as the matchlock did? What is a "Patron?" What is the reference to 12 Apostles?

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A' Patron' is a lidded box affair drilled useualy with wooden holes to carry a few carts .More A sporting idea .I wore mine on my waist belt .If hunting with the Snap matchlock .
Re a rest few military muskets full muskets did use rests but these soon became un needed once the lighter' Calivers ' came in use . YOUR gun is a light hunting Piece I doubt if any Such was as common. , as the Scottish Flattened horn Flask which is what I Use for my Scot's Pieces & I made the base plug to extend to form a square spanner like protrusion to tighten up the square top jaw nut affair found in some early Scots arms but often altered to the normally excepted slotted or ring like' Cock pin'/ screw Since these old sorts can hurt your thumb I threaded a small horn ball that is readily taken off it you need to change flints ect . Ive made a few of these styles & hunted with them days on end .so I do understand a bit about them.

AND I can Recite' The Immortal Bard' Robby Burn s quite well ".Wee sleeket timorous beasties" ect Kind of goes with the deal !, You Could carry your balls in your Sporran but it was for Oats. so might not be the best place I generally had a loading block with me .And looked like a Highland' Ben Gunn'.though he post dates the gun .
Rudyard's Notions

Bedford County Doc said:

What is a "Patron?"

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Here are some original patrons from the collection of the late Michael .

Rudyard said:

Dear Flint You might be right, but can you prouve it ?

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Excellent question and you are quite correct to point that out!

Unfortunately, I have so many books on matchlocks and/or early arms that I have regretfully not copied such things into notes for ‘ready retrieval’ where such important pieces of information are mentioned.

And I typically do not ever rely on one source, but on multiple sources as proof. However, in this regard … sadly I am indeed remiss in providing all such evidence, but …

One source for evidence, emphasis added by me:

Armin Koenig, a noted builder of early arms, “The term ‘twelf apostles’ for the powder bottles, which is frequently referred to in modern secondary source literature, came into use only in more recent times. There is no single source during the thirty years war mentioning this term. The number of the powder charges with early 17. century musketeer bandoliers also was not limited to 12, but varied between 8 and 14.”

Dear Flint Well neither of us or even Michael T where there so its academic .Nice Patrons mine was a' got up 'affair leather hinge & belt loops carved on under side says 'Super crude patron co' But it matched the gun its self which was made in disgusting haste out of old Church roof in' Miro' a NZ Native wood.
I later made a snap match lock 'After' Hans M ''for Michael T he expressed a desire for one. I took it to UK got it proofed but could never get a reply (Perhaps at the time he had the Govt bother ?) So I took it back to the US and Donlyne of Smoke & Fire News bought it for Dave her partner. She wont part with it. Nice to be appreciated . Ime trying to contact her as a Publisher as I seek to get my many gun related or travelers tales of which I have many all prior published in assorted Journal's related to gun stuff I'me Nye 80 and had far too much fun & its catching up on me with the creakies . Where you acquainted with the Hardwick Mass group French Marine Artillery Detachment Chamblee ?.
Regards Rudyard

Hello to everyone . back to the original post / The 'anderson' snaphance is NOT one of mine!

Brian Anderson

Brian Anderson said:

Hello to everyone . back to the original post / The 'anderson' snaphance is NOT one of mine!

Brian Anderson

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Hi Brian

OK. Well, that clears up that question. LOL In the case of the OP's gun, "Anderson" could refer to the gun builder, the lock maker, or the owner. We might never know.

Rick

Bedford County Doc said:

I was hoping to find a maker’s mark under the pan but but - no joy - On the other hand. Here is a picture of Anderson’s signature on the rear of the lock…

What is the best way to load these suckers? Treat it like a Brown Bess?

Click to expand...

For the most part, you can load and shoot like most any other smoothbore flint musket. Once the barrel is loaded, you can prime the pan, close the pan cover, cock the hammer, and bring the frizzen (battery) back over the pan cover when ready to fire. The hammer, frizzen, and pan relationship is just a bit different than a traditional flintlock. Only takes about a half-dozen shots to start getting use to it. I will be fun.

Rick