Condemning an old rifle, rather than repairing it.

Philip Lebow · Sep 1, 2024

A steady customer who likes to challenge us (buys manure old guns, cheap) to repair and make shootable his "treasures."
He bought 2 old cap lock drum conversions, both in very poor shape. A .36, and a .40....obviously flint conversions to 1/2 stocks.
The .36 wasn't too bad, it was cleaned and I pulled the breech plug to inspect and clean out the rust and dirt. Plug went back in tight.
The .40 was a back action, with a modern drum, split stock that had been over sanded and had lots of modern screws and white glue in it.
When I pulled the plug with brazed on tail extension, on the .40, the plug came out in a shower of orange dust. The plug just fell apart...
He paid$100 for the gun... The plug thread is over 1/2 " and under 9/16"..Too bad, as the barrel and rifling look good...
Needs a 9/16-18 tap in the bbl, and a new plug turned and welded to old tang section. And the drum is loose, over tapped..
Lock has been through many hands, bad bridle screws, rust, etc. double set triggers rusty but OK..
More money to rescue it, than the repaired gun will ever be worth. and it has no sentimental value...
So, I reassembled it as I could, and put a red tag on it...UNSAFE....
Plus my 3 other gunsmiths said they would slap me around if I took it on as an "I bet I could rescue this wreck of a gun!" for no profit...

wiscoaster · Sep 1, 2024

Sometimes it's fun just to see if you can.

Philip Lebow · Sep 2, 2024

Yeah, I know..Just to say I could. Or to show I still have skills! HAH!

ronaldrothb49 · Sep 2, 2024

Philip Lebow said:
for no profit

No way . I would give him a quote for the work that would be needed to repair it payable before any work was done. Then it is up to him what he wants to put into it.

rich pierce · Sep 2, 2024

Turning wrecks into shooters is something to do once, for the satisfaction.

wiscoaster · Sep 2, 2024

rich pierce said:
Turning wrecks into shooters is something to do once, for the satisfaction.

I've turned non-shooters into wrecks; also for the satisfaction.

Eric Krewson · Sep 2, 2024

I would do it if it were mine but not for someone else. I learned the hard way repairing bows for people for free that I should have left alone. I ended up having more work in them than it would have taken me to build two new bows.

I have often mentioned my pre-carve rifle from hell, the pre-carve was so flawed that fixing it took more time than it would have taken to do two complete scratch builds. It was one of those "just to see if I can" kind of things.

Sam squanch · Sep 2, 2024

Sadly, most of these old plain guns should be hung on the wall after deactivation. I can’t begin to tell you how many wrecks were brought to me by someone who wanted grandad’s gun fixed up to shoot. Unless its barrel is in good shape and was made correctly, with a decent lock, I turn them down. A lot of them were junk back when they were made!

nhmoose · Sep 2, 2024

Sometimes it is best to just salvage the usable parts and move on. I do not spend money to fix the ones I find but do it myself. Used to charge to fix when I had my shop.

Loyalist Dave · Sep 2, 2024

nhmoose said:
Sometimes it is best to just salvage the usable parts and move on.

RIGHT my brother likes to buy up old reels, hard used and put away without care, and will buy several of a specific brand and model, and usually ends up with something that is pretty good when he cleans them up and combines parts. I like the same thing with some banged up muzzleloaders, just to give me experience in doing the work. I've overhauled some pretty hard-used muskets, and gotten good results. I'm no smith, however.

Sometimes though all your get is a serviceable set of hardware, and maybe a working lock

LD

oldwood · Sep 2, 2024

I had a couple old rifles to fix , but the the wood in the stocks was crumbly. I pointed this out to the owners , and both went for new stocks. I pointed out that replacing the wood will devalue the potential sale price. Both wanted to shoot the rifles with new wood. As you wish. One family moved from Pa. to TX. I got a phone call about two yrs. later , and the son of the owner said they shoot the rifle frequently. Gratifying to me.

Philip Lebow · Sep 2, 2024

My same customer also brings old rimfire suicide special revolvers circa Cvil War for repair. As I specialize in old revolvers, I make them work, click and snap.
Then he finds ammo (!) and shoots them until they break again.. He expects them to be as reliable as a plastic Austrian appliance. In the books on suicide specials, the life of those things was one shot, one cylinder, or one month! Scrounged parts having been consumed, they are put into his bin of non-workers we keep for him...He DOES pay his bills without complaint...

deerstalkert · Sep 2, 2024

I have an old sxs 12g a fella dropped off, after some genius glued the ribs and barrels together with pl2000. for those that don't know, pl2000 is a construction adhesive. under said adhesive was several pounds of rust and scale. several rust windows into the breech of both barrels. only good is a couple back action locks and the triggers.

Gordoncourtney · Sep 3, 2024

Philip Lebow said:
A steady customer who likes to challenge us (buys manure old guns, cheap) to repair and make shootable his "treasures."
He bought 2 old cap lock drum conversions, both in very poor shape. A .36, and a .40....obviously flint conversions to 1/2 stocks.
The .36 wasn't too bad, it was cleaned and I pulled the breech plug to inspect and clean out the rust and dirt. Plug went back in tight.
The .40 was a back action, with a modern drum, split stock that had been over sanded and had lots of modern screws and white glue in it.
When I pulled the plug with brazed on tail extension, on the .40, the plug came out in a shower of orange dust. The plug just fell apart...
He paid$100 for the gun... The plug thread is over 1/2 " and under 9/16"..Too bad, as the barrel and rifling look good...
Needs a 9/16-18 tap in the bbl, and a new plug turned and welded to old tang section. And the drum is loose, over tapped..
Lock has been through many hands, bad bridle screws, rust, etc. double set triggers rusty but OK..
More money to rescue it, than the repaired gun will ever be worth. and it has no sentimental value...
So, I reassembled it as I could, and put a red tag on it...UNSAFE....
Plus my 3 other gunsmiths said they would slap me around if I took it on as an "I bet I could rescue this wreck of a gun!" for no profit...

Hope you can get imperial taps and dies in USA, plenty on eBay uk. Just got a 11/16 BSF die £8 and set of taps £14. They will post them to you . I previously broke the only one I had , Yrs I buy good guns and almost bad one , broken stocks ok, dents I can remove , I won’t buy without a lock , habit of buying rusty, in need of restoration at Holts UK auction , sucker for cape rifles like £120

I cannot shoot in uk police took away my firearm certificates and shotguns, I might shoot intruders at 81…..but I shoot bsa Scorpio pcp air guns to 50 yards no permit needed and getting better at arrows

Just collected my .5 percussion German mountain carbine , lovely but more like a ladies rifle , I like chunky ones

Love from across the pond

ChuckJonesWagon · Sep 3, 2024

nhmoose said:
Sometimes it is best to just salvage the usable parts and move on. I do not spend money to fix the ones I find but do it myself. Used to charge to fix when I had my shop.

I still have my first pistol build from over a decade ago. It's a 50 cal and shoots very well. To the novice (which I was when I built it) the pistol appears fine. Today for me it has a ton of flaws.

I've considered just scrapping the wood, and start a new one with the components. Then I think of how much I "beat it up" when I take it hunting. So I leave well enough alone.

Gordoncourtney · Sep 3, 2024

Yes I agree buying almost relics is a good way of getting original parts , The problem of making a new stock is that the finished product is almost worthless , well nobody would be interested in it this side of the pond, let alone a whole new gun from bits, it might be different in the USA with out the UKs gun laws So do you spend £800 on a good rifle 1850 or £150 on in need of refurbishment See Holts uk auctions for what’s around, it’s not financially viable to export to USA as you probably add on another £700 to your bid and buyers commission .

So I just paid out £750 on a 1830 German carbine , photo below , 1830, I buy a good old rifle at Holts auction most years , just cannot resist them

I just try to bid on guns with fine rust as the dealers won’t be interested in bidding , they make up some 80% of the bidders . I bought several that way and they come up mint

Just rambling along. , my apologies

sheriff john · Sep 3, 2024

Have enjoyed fooling with "project guns" for many years (all types). Just like friends who resurrect old vehicles, if we recover even a portion of the cost of parts, that's a "win". For sure, I have a lot less money invested in a few old guns than any of them have in one old vehicle. When I hit a snag, it's no problem to stash that project in a corner for a decade (or two). When they run out of parts for a Hupmobile, Model "T", or Massey Ferguson, they have to mow around their "project".

Nowadays, we can strip down a basket case, sell the parts via internet, and pass the fun on to someone who, hopefully, can renew their personal project. It is a "Happy Time" for me.

Gordoncourtney · Sep 3, 2024

sheriff john said:
Have enjoyed fooling with "project guns" for many years (all types). Just like friends who resurrect old vehicles, if we recover even a portion of the cost of parts, that's a "win". For sure, I have a lot less money invested in a few old guns than any of them have in one old vehicle. When I hit a snag, it's no problem to stash that project in a corner for a decade (or two). When they run out of parts for a Hupmobile, Model "T", or Massey Ferguson, they have to mow around their "project".

Nowadays, we can strip down a basket case, sell the parts via internet, and pass the fun on to someone who, hopefully, can renew their personal project. It is a "Happy Time" for me.

Yes a number of dealers have websites with old gun parts on them , they just buy up relics for £30 and sell the bits for £90 there’s several like that on google and eBay uk

I just took the barrel off this German carbine. The tang screw turns out to be made last week from store , couple of minor bits , the ramrod was probably not original as it was jammed hence barrel removal , not sure if it’s original but a bit warped so 5 mins sanding put it right . At 7.5 lbs is a nice rifle to carry over the mountains , and the •490 ball could deal with the odd bear . The set trigger works fine but it’s a hard pull up against the wood trigger guard .

It’s in good condition but the modern wood screw showed somebody fiddling with it, having said that , the chequering is good . Holts did not put the weight on their lot advert , I would have preferred something a bit chunkier like 9 lbs , Never the less the maker Rehbichler from then Mungnben Germany was a talented gun maker in the 1830s

I am only 80% happy but always another auction

My son 53 hates guns and hunting, but shoots arrows , He just bought a rust bucket a 2002 Volvo lake lander, built for Hungarian army “ Yes it’s got a club of them. “I want a 3 year project “. I managed to start it the other week.

I do wish you well from across the pond

Gordoncourtney · Sep 3, 2024

sheriff john said:
Have enjoyed fooling with "project guns" for many years (all types). Just like friends who resurrect old vehicles, if we recover even a portion of the cost of parts, that's a "win". For sure, I have a lot less money invested in a few old guns than any of them have in one old vehicle. When I hit a snag, it's no problem to stash that project in a corner for a decade (or two). When they run out of parts for a Hupmobile, Model "T", or Massey Ferguson, they have to mow around their "project".

Nowadays, we can strip down a basket case, sell the parts via internet, and pass the fun on to someone who, hopefully, can renew their personal project. It is a "Happy Time" for me.

Guns , horns, banjo, now massy Ferguson. In the uk google there’s “ friends of massy Ferguson “ web site most helpful. And they have a shop on a farm England south coast , you can get all the bits dead cheap as they are made in India . I have on from 1986 paid £175 from local rugby club, I used to drive it and plough the garden it did pee a posh neighbour off To day it’s called a hedge tractor , so many projects but they are not supposed to be done up. 2 new front tyres were £12 each. Exhaust silencer £8. I want to treat it to new rear tyres secondhand but preferably new £125 each delivers

Sorry to ramble on again but lovely to chat

ChuckJonesWagon · Sep 3, 2024

What's a "£" anyway?

Condemning an old rifle, rather than repairing it.

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