Original notched breech plugs

with notches

Very interesting. I've often wondered if Joe Manton didn't do something similar to his double barrel shotguns.

Hi,
No, Joe Manton did not. He installed powder chambered breeches somewhat like Nock's breech or more often, he used inset breeches on his doubles such that the breech was narrower than the barrels and the locks inset to make the wrist much narrower and bring the pans much closer to the powder chamber. Here is an example that was eventually converted to percussion.


dave

Many of the original barrels I've unbreached were notched.

I remember the dismay I felt as I was building my 1803 Harper's Ferry from the Track of the Wolf's Special Projects Kit (Translation: The Rifle Shop Kit) I discovered that the touch hole for the preinlet stock would have to be drilled into the breech plug. I had to put aside the parts as I tried to figure out how to get everything lined up. The barrel couldn't be moved back as it was tapered and would not fit properly in the barrel channel. I reached out to some very well renowned gun builders. I looked at the notched breeches of original rifles that were in the possession of some of the members of my gun club. I finally heeded the advice of the Mad Monk who instructed me to go ahead and notch the breech. I would have more than enough threads to maintain breech integrity and I would have a direct path to the powder chamber. A vent pick would keep the flash channel clean and there won't be a problem. The rifle is complete and ignition is very fast.

As we can see from many of the breech plugs shown, the threads behind the notch are sound and there is evidence of the rifle being well used.

Thank you @FlinterNick for all the photos.

oldwood said:

Many of the original barrels I've unbreached were notched.

Click to expand...

I’ve only seen a handful of original guns with plugs that were not notched most of mine are notched. It’s not one way or another notched or not, they did what they needed to do, we face the same challenges.

Grenadier1758 said:

I remember the dismay I felt as I was building my 1803 Harper's Ferry from the Track of the Wolf's Special Projects Kit (Translation: The Rifle Shop Kit) I discovered that the touch hole for the preinlet stock would have to be drilled into the breech plug. I had to put aside the parts as I tried to figure out how to get everything lined up. The barrel couldn't be moved back as it was tapered and would not fit properly in the barrel channel. I reached out to some very well renowned gun builders. I looked at the notched breeches of original rifles that were in the possession of some of the members of my gun club. I finally heeded the advice of the Mad Monk who instructed me to go ahead and notch the breech. I would have more than enough threads to maintain breech integrity and I would have a direct path to the powder chamber. A vent pick would keep the flash channel clean and there won't be a problem. The rifle is complete and ignition is very fast.

As we can see from many of the breech plugs shown, the threads behind the notch are sound and there is evidence of the rifle being well used.

Thank you @FlinterNick for all the photos.

Click to expand...

I have a few 1803 and common rifle plugs, all are notched in one is almost filed to a full 45 degrees. My 1803 repro had a long plug that needed to be notched, I read somewhere they were breaking drill bits and notched was a method applied to save bits

All those breech plugs are made wrong. (Sarcasm)

That worked back in the day but here in the 21st century it'll kill ya.

longcruise said:

That worked back in the day but here in the 21st century it'll kill ya.

Click to expand...

Fewer Lawyers Back Then!

longcruise said:

That worked back in the day but here in the 21st century it'll kill ya.

Click to expand...

Many gunmakers would disagree

FlinterNick said:

Many gunmakers would disagree

Click to expand...

That was sarcasm. I notched a 36 that I built long ago upon the advice of a reputable builder. I'll probably do it again.

longcruise said:

That was sarcasm. I notched a 36 that I built long ago upon the advice of a reputable builder. I'll probably do it again.

Click to expand...

My folly

No harm

On my Brown Bess from the rifle shop i also had to drill the plug. I later pulled it , notched it with a triangle file and blended it out to help prevent fowling. I also polished it bright with a buffing wheel. Looking at these originals there seems to be little interest in promoting flame flow or preventing fowling. Maybe modern builders are thinking too much on these things.

From an Albanian musket that was an absolute wreck and was rebuilt many times….

Some here might go full blown apoplectic upon seeing such a notched breech. Serves em right.
Robin

Robin101 said:

Some here might go full blown apoplectic upon seeing such a notched breech. Serves em right.
Robin

Click to expand...

I’ve tested out the both, drilling into the breech and notching and drilling ahead, I’ve actually found that you have to clean the gun more often when the vent is drilled ahead of the breech, I’m not exactly sure why that is it was just an observation, but I found no real evidence to suggest one way is better than the other.

The Prussians were drilling touch holes nearly 1/8 into their breech plugs which were a little shorter than what we make today, the argument that is dangerous i think hold’s little relevance to a single gun but is just a universal opinion or a theory of touch hole safety.

The rifle shoppe recently tested out their Ferguson rifle drilled into the breech and further back / forward to see if performance was an issue, per Jess Melot, there was no change at all in the guns performance and it was not any less safe. I believe the did this test to answer multiple complaints about the pattern being incorrect, which he does not intend to change.

I have an original 1803, 3rd model Bess barrel, charleville 1763 barrel, and a baker rifle here all plugs are drilled to accommodate the vent. From a mechanical point of view drilling into the plug might have saved on drill bits, as if you drill ahead, you can always slightly get caught on the thread and break a bit. While this isn’t a huge deal today, in the 18th century drill bits were expensive.

oldwood said:

Many of the original barrels I've unbreached were notched.

Click to expand...

I don’t understand why anybody would be concerned about a notched breech plug.

The theory is that the notch would expose a path for corrosive fouling to enter the threads and eventually cause the breech plug to fail. As we see from all of @FlinterNick's examples, that's not the likely result.