Lifespan of a Rifle?

For how long on average were rifles used? Would it be realistic for an early 1760s era Virginia rifle to show up in use years later during the fur trade? Say 1820s-1830s?

I’ve got a Kibler Woodsrunner but don’t really know what “period” it would be correct for. Just around the time of the revolution? Or could it reasonably be assumed such guns, if well taken care of and passed down, could still be in use 50-60 years on down the line?

-Smokey

Smokey Plainsman said:

For how long on average were rifles used? Would it be realistic for an early 1760s era Virginia rifle to show up in use years later during the fur trade? Say 1820s-1830s?

I’ve got a Kibler Woodsrunner but don’t really know what “period” it would be correct for. Just around the time of the revolution? Or could it reasonably be assumed such guns, if well taken care of and passed down, could still be in use 50-60 years on down the line?

-Smokey

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A rifle in 1760, as opposed to a musket, was an expensive custom built flintlock gun. Likely it would have been maintained and used until percussion rifles were coming into wide use.

From what I have read, most of Santa Anna's troops at the Alamo were using old Brown Besses bought from various parts of the Empire as surplus. 60-80 years old at the time?

rp77469 said:

From what I have read, most of Santa Anna's troops at the Alamo were using old Brown Besses bought from various parts of the Empire as surplus. 60-80 years old at the time?

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Mexico in 1836 had no industrial base and no means to mass produce rifles. In 1836 a Bess was still a relatively modern and reliable weapon.

Smokey Plainsman said:

For how long on average were rifles used? Would it be realistic for an early 1760s era Virginia rifle to show up in use years later during the fur trade? Say 1820s-1830s?

I’ve got a Kibler Woodsrunner but don’t really know what “period” it would be correct for. Just around the time of the revolution? Or could it reasonably be assumed such guns, if well taken care of and passed down, could still be in use 50-60 years on down the line?

-Smokey

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Possible & realistic are two separate things, in my estimation. My remarks are purely personal, that is from my point of view, unencumbered by diligent research into the western fur trade. If I were portraying a western, or Rocky Mountain hunter, I'd be carrying a J. Henry Lancaster pattern trade rifle, or depending on ethnic background, a Hudson's Bay northwest gun. If I were carrying a 1760s Virginia rifle, I would tailor my impression to the second third of the 18th century to harmonize with that rifle.

By way of personal example, I really enjoy shooting my reproduction fusil de chasse, a gun quite popular among French Canadian hunters, militiamen, and traders. Since these guns were in production for a good fifty years, and only underwent minor stylistic changes over the decades, I can clothe & equip myself pretty easily by simply consulting the many documents the French military left behind. Nothing looks out of place. Nothing has to be explained, nor stories of acquisition invented.

So it's possible for a 60 year old rifle to turn up in the 1820s Rocky Mountains. But likely, or realistic? Well...anomalies can happen. I just don't like inventing stories to explain them. It's up to you.

We have to keep in mind growth. In 1776 our population was about two million
Most people lived in a narrow range bear the coast and didn’t own rifles
Were there a hundred thousand rifles in colonial/ new United States? I doubt if it was that high.
Women didn’t usually own guns, and children didn’t until early teens. There were about six hundred thousand adult males, did ten percent own rifles? Seems a high number.
A twenty year old rifleman living in west Pennsylvania in ‘76 would be twenty six at the end of the war, he may have went in to Ohio or Kentucky and by the time he is forty in ‘96 Americas population has now doubled but he has a farm and family, or some sort of townsman, he’s not going to go be a Mountian man, but he loves his old rifle, he ain’t going to be selling it.
By the time the Mountian man, Santa Fe trail, settlement of Texas is kicking in Americas population is close to ten times the colonial.
We see old guns carried and used, almost all of the surviving trade guns were in use till collectors started wanting them around 1900. However the population was growing faster then could be supplied by oldsters selling or giving away their old gun
The fur companies and trading outfits usually supplied a new employee with a gun

Depends on use....I have read where the market hunters (Long Hunters) literally would wear out thier firearms within a few years, due to continuous exposure to the elements. The fancier the rifle, the wealthier the owner and the better cared for it was...thats why so many surviving long rifles seem so ...pretty. Sure there are relic firearms from individuals that are still in great shape...but the good money is on those being later rifles they owned, which were better maintained...when the owners were younger, they were harder on them.

It's fairly common to find antique flintlocks that were converted to percussion. The theory is quite plausible.

I think old guns were used for a long time as secondary guns or the only gun for a kid or young man who would use or carry a gun occasionally. I don’t think a professional scout or fur trapper would choose a 30-60 year old gun as their primary weapon or tool.

The presence of guns used for 50-60 years as evidenced by conversion to percussion doesn’t prove they were used by serious folks whose lives depended on them. More likely to shoot raccoons that got into the corn and were treed by the farmer’s dogs.

I think the British Military expected a life of about 10 to 13 years before a musket was declared unserviceable.

We have records of the 1792 contract rifles being almost totally unserviceable by 1803 when Lewis was at Harper's Ferry to get the rifles for the Corps of Discovery.

A lot will depend on the usage of the rifle.

I have heard of soldiers in Afghanistan catching Taliban guys that were using original Brown Bess muskets.

How long?
If it was cleaned and taken care of, longer than most peoples' lifespans...
In fact, there are plenty of multi-generational firearms still in use. Most Europeans are not able to own modern repros; only originals. Let that sink in a minute.

People were VERY thrifty! Nothing useable was thrown away. I've seen many 1760's rifles with numerous upgrades done over the years...converted to percussion, barrels shortened, full stocks that had the forearm broken were shortend to half stocks and so forth. They wasted almost nothing. If it still worked they would use it.

• They also had the Baker Rifle at the Alamo

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From what I have read, most of Santa Anna's troops at the Alamo were using old Brown Besses bought from various parts of the Empire as surplus. 60-80 years old at the time?

I also have a 1896 Krag carbine, in as good a shape as the day it left the armory

A well taken firearm will last a long time. How many ACW reenactors carry original rifles, have a friend who carried a 1855, the only thing missing was the tape primers

A friend who was a collector purchased a Fusil de Chasse from someone in the Qualla Boundary area of NC. It was probably made around 1730 and had been converted to percussion. So that means that a gun that was 100 years old was still considered valuable enough for someone to invest in the cost of a new percussion lock.

Smokey Plainsman said:

For how long on average were rifles used?

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This isn't an answer to your main question, but I can't resist it anyway, because my "oldest" rifle is 147 years old and it's still in use.

Old guns were used until no longer serviceable, then the parts were often used to build new rifles.

Great question and one I have asked myself many times.

I had an eye opening experience this summer while visiting the Museum of the Fur Trade.

Last year I bought a used .52 contemporary long rifle from a member here that was built in the style of the Kibler Colonial, 42” barrel, nice gun, brass fitted etc. Carving was very crude, looked like what you would expect around the campfire. The lock plate was originally a firelock and had been crudely converted (aesthetically speaking) to percussion.

I kind of focus on early furtrade 1805-1825 since I had a relative active then…so the question is “can this rifle fit in as a late 1820’s conversion to percussion?”

The styling is all wrong for that late a period gun. It looks like a pre-Revolutionary War gun, certainly no Golden Age features. But being percussion, I would have to explain how it made it from 1770 to the Mountain West in 1828 or so. That’s hard.

But…in the Museum there on the shelf was a gun that almost exactly, like my rifle was a clone in every way, that matched my rifle. The production date was documented as 1825. I asked the folks there for confirmation and they said yes.

It was converted to flint just the way mine was…in fact, I truly think the rifle I have was built to match the one in the Museum.

Never would have thought that a full stock long rifle would have been made in that style in 1825…but there you go.

Pic added: bottom gun.

Packrat said:

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From what I have read, most of Santa Anna's troops at the Alamo were using old Brown Besses bought from various parts of the Empire as surplus. 60-80 years old at the time?

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From what I have read, the Land Pattern Muskets used by Santa Anna's troops were the Third Model pattern and would have been about 20 to 30 years old.