Roundballs verses Conicals..??

morehops52 said:

I shoot only conicals and all of my rifles (1:48) are coned. If there was any fall off of accuracy i haven't detected it and the deer haven't noticed either.

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Would be interested in Who made the coning tool you used? The ones I have are from Joe Wood but I know of 2 other people who also make a version of coning tool.

As I always say, your joy is infectious. Much appreciated in this crazy world.

ronaldrothb49 said:

Would be interested in Who made the coning tool you used? The ones I have are from Joe Wood but I know of 2 other people who also make a version of coning tool.

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I used Joe Woods tools in both 50 and 54. I absolutely love how easy my Maxis are to load quickly and line up straight.

While I have enjoyed Maniac's videos I don't feel that the heading title was truly valid for the video. Too many variables on the the conicals and I'm pretty sure he uses a RB twist (1:60?) barrel, but I could be wrong. A 1:48 barrel can be made to shoot RB and conicals closer than just about any other twist but only after making adjustments.

morehops52 said:

I used Joe Woods tools in both 50 and 54. I absolutely love how easy my Maxis are to load quickly and line up straight.

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Interesting When I got my tools from Mr. Wood he did state that they wouldn't work with conicals. Would be interested in seeing what kind of accuracy your getting. I have a rifle I built just for hunting a .45 with a 1 X 24 twist just to shoot conicals. having been a target shooter so any rifle I have is expected to shoot a 1 hole group at 50 yards. It is a very accurate rifle but some what difficult to load the conicals.

Conicals should be sized to the barrel of the gun intended to shoot them. Conical lead bullets should be both sized and lined to provide accurate results in a test to determine what is most accurate. They should look similar to the photo posted below. This provides the most ethical approach to be utilized when hunting game animals.

PNWMLB said:

Conicals should be sized to the barrel of the gun intended to shoot them. Conical lead bullets should be both sized and lined to provide accurate results in a test to determine what is most accurate. They should look similar to the photo posted below. This provides the most ethical approach to be utilized when hunting game animals.

View attachment 349451

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Lubed, not lined! Damn auto correct!

ronaldrothb49 said:

Interesting When I got my tools from Mr. Wood he did state that they wouldn't work with conicals. Would be interested in seeing what kind of accuracy your getting. I have a rifle I built just for hunting a .45 with a 1 X 24 twist just to shoot conicals. having been a target shooter so any rifle I have is expected to shoot a 1 hole group at 50 yards. It is a very accurate rifle but some what difficult to load the conicals.

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Last week I shot my Deerstalker 50 percussion at 50 yds. 368g Maxis with my (dried out) lube. I don't have the target anymore but I did measure the groups. The best group was a three hole cloverleaf at 3 o'clock and even after adjusting sights to the ten ring and firing two more, one was in the X ring. That 5 shot group measured 1-5/8" which included the sight correction. I understand ones' concern of a can't-go-back mod to a barrel. If I was a competition shooter I might hesitate. As a hunter the convenience (no ball starter) and time saved in loading is much appreciated. That's why after coning one barrel and experiencing the results, I coned all my rifles.

I think every thing has ts place! I am not a fan of conicals but if one desires to hunt deer size game or larger with a .45 or .50 cal. rifle it would be wize on their part to consider using conicals on the other hand if you shoot a .54 or .58 cal a ball will not let you down. I personally like a .54 cal as the big bore make the rifle a little lighter. A .530 ball sitting on 80 grains of powder will take just about anything in America if you place it well. My problem with small cal. rifles the load that is most accurate is generally not strong enough to suit me.

ronaldrothb49 said:

Interesting When I got my tools from Mr. Wood he did state that they wouldn't work with conicals. Would be interested in seeing what kind of accuracy your getting. I have a rifle I built just for hunting a .45 with a 1 X 24 twist just to shoot conicals. having been a target shooter so any rifle I have is expected to shoot a 1 hole group at 50 yards. It is a very accurate rifle but some what difficult to load the conicals.

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Yes, he told me the same thing. He does not recommend using the tool for shooting conicals.

PNWMLB said:

Conicals should be sized to the barrel of the gun intended to shoot them. Conical lead bullets should be both sized and lined to provide accurate results in a test to determine what is most accurate. They should look similar to the photo posted below. This provides the most ethical approach to be utilized when hunting game animals.

View attachment 349451

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Correct. Mr. Hoyt measured my conicals I cast and run through a Lee sizing die. Then bored my barrel to size.

Here is a good group with those sized and lubed 420 grain conicals. Adjusted up twice from first 2 lower shots at 75 yards.

I'm of the school that the body of the conical should be a relatively easy fit to the lands. Only slightly engraved. And that the front driving band should be a tight fit to the grooves.

That holds the body of the bullet straight when initially pushed in and let's the driving band keep the bullet from tipping so it shoots without wobbling.

That's how I do it but I don't have any comparisons or data to support it.

Since I started using comical (TC maxi) I've never had to track a deer , usually no more than 3 steps from shot.
My shots are always under 60 yards intentionally.
As far as accuracy, I watched several Idaho Lewis videos that are amazing with shots with his renegade.

kelljp said:

Since I started using comical (TC maxi) I've never had to track a deer , usually no more than 3 steps from shot.
My shots are always under 60 yards intentionally.
As far as accuracy, I watched several Idaho Lewis videos that are amazing with shots with his renegade.

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You watched the right person to learn from! LOL!

For those worried about whether their rifling twist or depth will work with something besides round ball...
Slow twists were the norm for military rifles during the 1860's war.
Deep rifling will work with heavy bullets if you make them expand to fill the grooves, like sticking a round bullet down a hexagonal bored Whitworth.

It's easiest to make fast twist shallow groove barrels shoot long heavy bullets because you have the individual characteristics working together for you. But if you make the bullets lighter or the rifling deeper or the twist slower then you have to work harder.

Some day I'd like to have a long barreled ladder sighted military styled flintlock set up to use with off the shelf 425 to 550 grain fifty caliber molds. Left handed of course!

Maven said:

Those conicals look like Lee Precision's REAL's, i.e., Rifling Engraved At Loading and are better suited to rifles with twists of 1:48" and faster. They also are a bit more accurate with a card stock over powder wad.

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Tried them in a 1 in72" twist 58 caliber and after 10 shots you would have thought it was a nice pattern with very large buckshot, only 9 holes on a 36" paper target. Safest place was the 10"s in the center.
They work well with a faster twist and do penatrate pretty decent on game, I just prefer a round ball for all around use.

shorthair said:

I just prefer a round ball for all around use.

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I'm with you on that statement my friend..
Much prefer the round ball too.

I hunt with either a 50 cal or 54 cal. From the 50 all I shoot are Hornady Pa Conicals with 90% of that gunk lube they use wiped off. For the 54 all I hunt with are Lyman 533-476, hollow base, Minie lubed with SPG.

Both barrels are GM with 1-70 (or thereabout) twist. Both the Pa Conical and the Minie have a hollow base to expand easily and engage the rifling.

Both are very accurate out to 100yds.

I use these types of conicals as for me, they are easier to load and reload than a PRB. I have a physical disability with my left arm\hand and find keeping a patch and RB aligned for loading more difficult that an "ordinary guy."

The deer die just like a PRB, but for me it's a matter of "it's just easier".

Here's the 54 cal shooting the Minie. 5 shot group, from a bench, 100 yards. BTW, for the Minie to "stay put" in the barrel, I've used a Lee Universal Expander die and have "bumped" the hollow base of the Minie to the diameter that is just enough for the Minie to stay put once shoved down the barrel. IF not, the Minie has a proclivity to not stay seated....which is fine if you're just loading, keep the rifle up or level and shooting. But for hunting that never happens.