3F powder vs. 2F in .54cal flintlock rifle

I have been using 2F powder in my .54cal flintlock rifles (T/C Hawken, Lyman GPR and my new Kibler Woodsrunner) for 30yrs. I did this because, this was always recommended in rifles over .50cal . My understanding for this was, because 3F powder created very high breech pressures. I'm told that modern steel barrels can handle the pressures. The upside being, you can use less 3F powder to get the same velocity as 2F and thereby save money. On the downside, I'm wondering if the 3F produces more kick or a lot more kick. Anyone have any experience or knowledge of this?

3F seems to have a sharper kick, for the same velocity, or maybe just my imagination.

I've used both and if there's any difference in felt recoil it's not much. If you're using 80 gr FF, 70gr FFF feels about the same.

I find that 3F leaves less/smaller fouling compared to 2F. Also flows better in a patent breach rifle. All my guns are 50 cal.

I use 3f in all my bp guns from my 36 cal colt revolvers up to my 10 gauge New England Fowler. I never blew up a gun and I like to keep things simple.

i don't like using 3f in larger calibers, it does have a sharper kick. i like the push of 2f instead. i have also found in 45 cal. they are just as accurate with 2f as 3f i have shot some good groups off the bench with 2f in the 45, i tried 2f in a 40cal. and it did not group well, but not to say another 40 wouldn't it's fun experimenting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Just shot my .54 woodsrunner Wednesday with 2F and 3F, working up a good hunting load with it. If I adjusted the 3F down by volume 10 grains, I really couldn't see a difference in recoil and POI at 50yds was pretty close to same for both. I've got some 2F to finish up so will stick with 2F for now but plan on going to only 3F once gone so I shoot everything with both and have found to be able to get good results from 3F as well in the larger calibers.

Frontiersman said:

I have been using 2F powder in my .54cal flintlock rifles (T/C Hawken, Lyman GPR and my new Kibler Woodsrunner) for 30yrs. I did this because, this was always recommended in rifles over .50cal . My understanding for this was, because 3F powder created very high breech pressures. I'm told that modern steel barrels can handle the pressures. The upside being, you can use less 3F powder to get the same velocity as 2F and thereby save money. On the downside, I'm wondering if the 3F produces more kick or a lot more kick. Anyone have any experience or knowledge of this?

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Use 3f in everything from tiny pocket pistol to my 69 cal. musket, no problems

Frontiersman said:

I have been using 2F powder in my .54cal flintlock rifles (T/C Hawken, Lyman GPR and my new Kibler Woodsrunner) for 30yrs. I did this because, this was always recommended in rifles over .50cal . My understanding for this was, because 3F powder created very high breech pressures. I'm told that modern steel barrels can handle the pressures. The upside being, you can use less 3F powder to get the same velocity as 2F and thereby save money. On the downside, I'm wondering if the 3F produces more kick or a lot more kick. Anyone have any experience or knowledge of this?

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I tried at first to use 2Fg as a main charge in my .50 and 4f for the pan. It was sooo tedious for me, I decided to keep it simple. I switched to 3Fg in the main charge and the pan. It did burn cleaner, and I got more consistent chronograph of the muzzle velocity as well. I don't use what I consider a "large" main charge. The state minimum load for deer is 60 grains of whatever granulation that you use, so I tried 70 grains. It worked quite well back then, and I was using a .50 at the time. When I switched to a .54 I simply used the same bag and powder-charger. Worked fine, and has killed a lot of deer.

I think the recoil increase would be nominal. While the manuals all differ for when they recommend one switch from 3F to 2F for the main charge, they agree that there is about a 10% increase in results with 3F over 2F, right? 10% higher velocity should mean only a 10% increase in recoil, maybe?

Now the perceived recoil is another matter. All of my rifles and muskets are very wide at the butt. So backwards impact is spread out over a wide area. IF I was using a rifle with a much thinner butt plate, especially if it was metal and very crescent shaped, I might feel the recoil more, due to more pounds per square inch on my shoulder due to the reduced surface area in contact with that shoulder.

LD

2f as pan powder goes off like lightning. i have killed several deer with 2f prime in the pan,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I was getting a nice 3 inch group at 40 yards with my .54 rifle with 2f Goex (I’m no marksman )
I tried 3f and got 2 inch groups.

olskool said:

2f as pan powder goes off like lightning. i have killed several deer with 2f prime in the pan,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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Really? Wow!! What brand? I tried using 2F as pan powder once while shooting my Charleville with paper cartridges and priming the "historically correct" way (ie priming from cartridge) and my results were failure to ignite main charge about one in three attempts. If I remember right, it was probably Scheutzen.

i shoot goex, in Kibler woods runner or anything else i see no difference. here is a photo of it lighting, it gets hot. this was 2f in a TVM 54 cal. the 3 shot group i shot offhand at 50yds same powder ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

There are some good charts floating around from experiments between FF and FFF.

olskool said:

2f as pan powder goes off like lightning. i have killed several deer with 2f prime in the pan,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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I would not have thought that. I will try it. Good to know.

I've used 3f in my 54's for years. Lights off quicker and shoots good.

Me too, 3f in my .54 for years , good for the main charge and the pan.

I used 2fg in the pan on my Bess loading from paper cartridges by the manual including priming from the cartridge before loading. I never experienced a failure to fire or a hang fire however the Bess is like using a bulldozer for a lawn tractor.

olskool said:

i shoot goex, in Kibler woods runner or anythingView attachment 349958View attachment 349960 else i see no difference. here is a photo of it lighting, it gets hot. this was 2f in a TVM 54 cal. the 3 shot group i shot offhand at 50yds same powder ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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Nice rifle, great photos, and you do indeed look like a true muzzle loader! Thanks!

2Fg in calibers over .50 was the gospel for many years. However, with experience, we (well....most of us) learned that 3fg is just fine. But you must adjust charges to get your new 'sweet spot' accuracy.