Hunting loads for my .58 black powder rifle

[brazosland]

I get it but it's not possible in this spot to get closer myself the deer would have to on their own if I try to set up any closer I bust them out in the dark if I take any more steps. I understand the thought of getting closer but here in AZ that's not an easy proposition much different than the area I grew up hunting in. I was not shooting off hand and was practicing

Nevermind.

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

there is a drill you can use to learn your rifle for shooting at distance.
We call these “walk backs”.

1.) These shots are all off hand. Go to 50 yards. Shoot at your steel or target. Reload right there.
2). Turn your back to the target and start walking. Go as far as you want. Turn back to the target a shoot. Don’t rush it. Make the best shot you can. Reload.
3) turn your back to the target and start walking. Stop when you feel like it. Turn and shoot. Don’t rush it. Make the best shot you can. Reload.
4). Repeat.

Until you can hit your target and steel at 200 yards, you have work to do. You don’t have to shoot X’s or bullseyes. Just a shot in a kill zone.

Yes, I can shoot my match M1 Garand off hand to 200 yards/meters and keep them in the black. (Not all X ring shots of course)

I’m working on it with my long rifles. I’m getting pretty good to 150. The drop off after that is very challenging. I know it’s best to use just one rifle for now, so I use my .50 with a swamped barrel.

Good luck.

WARNING: this is an advanced shooting drill. It’s not for the feint of heart. A hawken style rifle is a difficult rifle to shoot off hand. Difficult at best.

I'm running behind on reading all the post on this forum.ive read what you been writing.i want to say thank you for posting this information.Dont know you personally but from all the information that you are posting that you know what you are doing.Thank you bud for writing on this topic.I honestly appreciate your contribution. wishing you and your family the best in life.keep posting brother.

 

[Whiteoak15]

You want big chunks of lead here are the slugs I shoot out of my White rifles the honker on the left is a 54 cal 740 grain and the little one on the right is a .50 cal 600 grain that 54 is a reject not a perfect cast so no comments on it please.

Those would hurt if you only threw them at a deer! I'm sure penetration is not a problem!

 

[cjgregory]

I'm running behind on reading all the post on this forum.ive read what you been writing.i want to say thank you for posting this information.Dont know you personally but from all the information that you are posting that you know what you are doing.Thank you bud for writing on this topic.I honestly appreciate your contribution. wishing you and your family the best in life.keep posting brother.

Thank you. I contribute what I can.

 

[lou puleff]

Absolutely beautiful country, I would go to the little trees in middle and wait there. Looks almost like hunting in Davis Mountains of west Texas. A little less rugged.

Not sure what part some do not understand so I go into the pines and bust all the deer out and don't even get a shot I guess that solves the question on the distance no shot at all !

 

[LME]

After my missed deer the other day I'm wondering if I shouldn't have set my rifle up differently. Thinking I should have used more powder so it shoots flatter without having to use the rear adjustable sight for different yardages and just hold lower or higher. I was using 100 grains of Swiss 2f and using the adjustable rear buckhorn for different distances I'm thinking I should have gone to at least 150 grains if not more and just use a higher or lower hold any thoughts on the subject ?
Thanks !!

What you should do is google how many grains of powder did a civil war soldier use in his Muzzle loader? You don't need 100 grains of powder.

 

[lou puleff]

What you should do is google how many grains of powder did a civil war soldier use in his Muzzle loader? You don't need 100 grains of powder.

I know you don't necessarily need a 100 grains to kill a deer 60 or 70 is fine it's about shooting flatter at distance that's what the discussion is about.

 

[LME]

I know you don't necessarily need a 100 grains to kill a deer 60 or 70 is fine it's about shooting flatter at distance that's what the discussion is about.

You do know a .58 cal. is a heavy chunk of lead? It isn't going to shoot very flat to start with. Why don't you get your most accurate load and learn how it shoots at different distances? It isn't hard. I shot a .54 cal. using 80 grains. I had no problems with shots on live game out to 100 yards.

 

[lou puleff]

You do know a .58 cal. is a heavy chunk of lead? It isn't going to shoot very flat to start with. Why don't you get your most accurate load and learn how it shoots at different distances? It isn't hard. I shot a .54 cal. using 80 grains. I had no problems with shots on live game out to 100 yards.

Ok that's great but were talking 180 yards here.

 

[LME]

Ok that's great but were talking 180 yards here.

From what I get from your post you don't need to be shooting an animal that far yet?

 

[lou puleff]

From what I get from your post you don't need to be shooting an animal that far yet?

Thanks for the advice

 

[cjgregory]

You do know a .58 cal. is a heavy chunk of lead? It isn't going to shoot very flat to start with. Why don't you get your most accurate load and learn how it shoots at different distances? It isn't hard. I shot a .54 cal. using 80 grains. I had no problems with shots on live game out to 100 yards.

There is something to be said for this. If one looks at a muzzleloader loading table, it is easy to see, starting at .54 caliber, and going up, more powder nets almost nothing.
Diminishing returns. The most responsive to heavier loadings is the .50 caliber. Going to 3F and 100 grains gives a
substantial velocity benift to the .50 caliber. In some cases, close to or right at 2000 fps. .54 or .58 doesn’t get anything. 10, maybe 15 fps.

Diminishing returns. If anyone doubts this, feel free to look it up. In fact, at the table I looked at, a .58 did over 100fps faster with 2F at the upper loadings.

What he wants to do can be done on the right day, at the right moment. I hope he pulls it off.
The hawken and being a .58 are significant barriers. The arc is too hard to account for drop. Accurately ranging and knowing what the hold over for that range is, well it could possibly be a drill in futility.

Now if a good shooter told me he can do it with a .50 long rifle with a 42” barrel, I could be convinced. Somewhat.

 

[lou puleff]

There is something to be said for this. If one looks at a muzzleloader loading table, it is easy to see, starting at .54 caliber, and going up, more powder nets almost nothing.
Diminishing returns. The most responsive to heavier loadings is the .50 caliber. Going to 3F and 100 grains gives a substantial velocity benift to the .50 caliber. In some cases, close to or right at 2000 fps. .54 or .58 doesn’t get anything. 10, maybe 15 fps.

Diminishing returns. If anyone doubts this, feel free to look it up. In fact, at the table I looked at, a .58 did over 100fps faster with 2F at the upper loadings.

The only thing I'm interested in a flatter shooting round ball at a longer distance which more powder will do not concerned about velocity at all.

 

[cjgregory]

The only thing I'm interested in a flatter shooting round ball at a longer distance which more powder will do not concerned about velocity at all.

A bigger, heavier ball won’t give you that. But who am I to say anything? I haven’t tried that shot before. For the same reason a standard .22 target load (subsonic) is more accurate than the hyper speed .22’s. Hands down.

You could always use a sabot. Then you could shoot through the first 50-80 yards, then you only have to account for the remaining drop.

There is a formula for velocity and bullet drop.
I’m not trying to be right or trying to make you wrong. This is a thought process. Math. Are you sure velocity doesn’t interface with flatter shooting? That they aren’t relative? Your mass is fixed and not a variable.

If there was a way, I would help you with it. I’m trying. The ballistic coefficient of the round ball, your shorter barrel, and heavy ball…means you will have to make a magnificent shot. Even a BP paper patched 45/70 loops like a rainbow. I know because I’ve done it.
Here’s a picture of some of my paper patched BP loads in 45/70. 450 grain bullets.

 

[lou puleff]

A bigger, heavier ball won’t give you that. But who am I to say anything? I haven’t tried that shot before. For the same reason a standard .22 target load (subsonic) is more accurate than the hyper speed .22’s. Hands down.

You could always use a sabot. Then you could shoot through the first 50-80 yards, then you only have to account for the remaining drop.

There is a formula for velocity and bullet drop.
I’m not trying to be right or trying to make you wrong. This is a thought process. Math. Are you sure velocity doesn’t interface with flatter shooting? That they aren’t relative? Your mass is fixed and not a variable.

If there was a way, I would help you with it. I’m trying. The ballistic coefficient of the round ball, your shorter barrel, and heavy ball…means you will have to make a magnificent shot. Even a BP paper patched 45/70 loops like a rainbow. I know because I’ve done it.
Here’s a picture of some of my paper patched BP loads in 45/70. 450 grain bullets.

Thanks but a sabot would be blasphemy out of this rifle it’s my custom Hawken and I want to take at least one deer with it before I move on. I’ll go out there and set up some targets and do some testing on location. I talked to my builder and he said I should be good out to 200 yards with 150 or so grains and shoot flat if I’m sighted correctly.

 

[nhmoose]

Shot was 180 yards

You took as far as I am concerned a stupid attempt to wound an animal hope you found no blood when and if you looked.

Give up muzzle loading.

 

[lou puleff]

You took as far as I am concerned a stupid attempt to wound an animal hope you found no blood when and if you looked.

Give up muzzle loading.

Your entitled to your opinion but I guarantee I'll outshoot you any day of the week !

 

[cjgregory]

Thanks but a sabot would be blasphemy out of this rifle it’s my custom Hawken and I want to take at least one deer with it before I move on. I’ll go out there and set up some targets and do some testing on location. I talked to my builder and he said I should be good out to 200 yards with 150 or so grains and shoot flat if I’m sighted correctly.

Yeah, go with that.

 

[LME]

The only thing I'm interested in a flatter shooting round ball at a longer distance which more powder will do not concerned about velocity at all.

If you figure it out let me know! I have been shooting since the sixties and never found out how to do a lot of flating the arc out?

 

[LME]

There is something to be said for this. If one looks at a muzzleloader loading table, it is easy to see, starting at .54 caliber, and going up, more powder nets almost nothing.
Diminishing returns. The most responsive to heavier loadings is the .50 caliber. Going to 3F and 100 grains gives a
substantial velocity benift to the .50 caliber. In some cases, close to or right at 2000 fps. .54 or .58 doesn’t get anything. 10, maybe 15 fps.

Diminishing returns. If anyone doubts this, feel free to look it up. In fact, at the table I looked at, a .58 did over 100fps faster with 2F at the upper loadings.

What he wants to do can be done on the right day, at the right moment. I hope he pulls it off.
The hawken and being a .58 are significant barriers. The arc is too hard to account for drop. Accurately ranging and knowing what the hold over for that range is, well it could possibly be a drill in futility.

Now if a good shooter told me he can do it with a .50 long rifle with a 42” barrel, I could be convinced. Somewhat.

A futile quest is what the fellow is on? There isn't much you can do to flaten the trajectory very much.