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patch knife?

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Just because you think “patch knives” weren’t a thing doesn’t mean THAT knife isn’t original. There have been knives in all kinds of shapes and sizes since before we were making blades out of metal.
It’s hard to tell from the picture, but the styling and patina seem to be consistent with a 19th century piece.
Jay

It's a nice knife, but not a Old Original Patch Knife.
 
It's a nice knife, but not a Old Original Patch Knife.
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i got this knife from a person who bought a storage locker. it was mixed in with other black powder stuff. do ya'll think it is an original? the front of handle looks to maybe poured pewter. the wood handles look like mahogany it sure looks the part.View attachment 349788

Not sure how old the blade is, as it looks like it was ground down from a longer blade.

However, the use of cutlers rivets on the handle means at least the handle, as we see it, is no older than the 1880's.

Gus
 
Not sure how old the blade is, as it looks like it was ground down from a longer blade.

However, the use of cutlers rivets on the handle means at least the handle, as we see it, is no older than the 1880's.

Gus
Those aren’t cutlers rivets, they’re solid brass pins that have been peened over, and they’re documented to the Bronze Age.
 
Yeah, definitely pins, not rivets. Mine often get the same cracking from not being annealed quite enough. 😳
There’s a real beauty in the simple, clean lines of this little knife. A lot of modern makers- myself included- could learn a lot from studying these older pieces. Like how to not stress about not getting the pins right. 🤣
 
Yep, with the better pictures, I can see they aren't cutlers rivets. Now I'm wondering if they are rivets and burs?

Gus
I’m not seeing any evidence of that- if it was, we should see a more-or-less circular mark indicating the two separate pieces of metal.
The first picture here is a locust-handled butcher knife I made in the late 90s. It has brass pins. The second is an antique I got from a friend- it had been in his family since at least the middle 1800s. It has 2 steel pins and a brass pin and burr.
Jay
 

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I don't t
Just because you think “patch knives” weren’t a thing doesn’t mean THAT knife isn’t original. There have been knives in all kinds of shapes and sizes since before we were making blades out of metal.
It’s hard to tell from the picture, but the styling and patina seem to be consistent with a 19th century piece.
Jay
I don't think we can know or declare there were no patch knives or ball starters. All we really have is circumstantial evidence. Just like ball starters and flintlock Hawkens. I think we should consider what COULD have been made. Maybe there were individuals living here and there who had such items but left no trace. I mean we can say with authority that the people 16th and 17th centuries had no 3D printers or helicopters or rifle scopes, but some of their activities and gadgets may have existed but have not been discovered.
 
I don't think we can declare or say as fact that the 16th and 17th folks didn't have patch knives or short starters. They would certainly have the means to make such things. About the strongest thing we can say we can say circumstantial evidence indicates they did not and that none have been found. Everyone does things out of the norm to address individual needs and concerns. We CAN say as a certainty they didn't have 3D printers or cellphones or Chevrolets.
 
In an article in a 1935 "American Rifleman" on the Flintlock Rifle is a figure showing the contents of a shot bag associated with a flintlock rifle. There is an item that looks like a short starter but is identified as a "Bulger". In the article the Bulger is used to start the ball. No patch knife was in the figure although an arch punch device is shown and labeled as a patch cutter. Precut patches are shown on a thread.

How many items that we use had a different name back then?

Now back to the original posting of the patch knife. The shape of the handle appears more modern with the curves and full tang. The blade does look old. I have been mistaken when aging items before. I do like the looks of that knife and it should do an excellent job of cutting patches at the muzzle. Great find.
 
I don't t

I don't think we can know or declare there were no patch knives or ball starters. All we really have is circumstantial evidence. Just like ball starters and flintlock Hawkens. I think we should consider what COULD have been made. Maybe there were individuals living here and there who had such items but left no trace. I mean we can say with authority that the people 16th and 17th centuries had no 3D printers or helicopters or rifle scopes, but some of their activities and gadgets may have existed but have not been discovered.
Phooey, I posted that twice. I thought the first one didn't go thru.
 
I’m not seeing any evidence of that- if it was, we should see a more-or-less circular mark indicating the two separate pieces of metal.
The first picture here is a locust-handled butcher knife I made in the late 90s. It has brass pins. The second is an antique I got from a friend- it had been in his family since at least the middle 1800s. It has 2 steel pins and a brass pin and burr.
Jay
Hi Jay,

I have seen rivets pounded into burs and then the top surface filed smooth so the circular mark cannot be seen, especially when the metal ages. I'm not definite this is what is happening here, though.

I will also say if those are brass pins, the diameter of the pin must be far larger than I would ever expect to see on a knife handle.

I can't rule out cutlers rivets, though. Those shown below when pounded with a hammer and so much of the surface on each side is above the surface of the wood, it seems the cracks along the circumference could easily result.

Two-Piece Press-Fit Rivets for Wood​

96082a100c1-b02-digital-master1569861295-p9@halfx_637054420606753768.png

Installed
96082a200c1-b02-digital-master1569861295-p9@halfx_637054420701375005.png


Also known as cutlery rivets, the two heads provide a finished look on both sides of your material. Use a hammer or press to join the mating parts. Access to both sides of the material is required.


Gus
 
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