patch knife?

[Juice Jaws]

Just because you think “patch knives” weren’t a thing doesn’t mean THAT knife isn’t original. There have been knives in all kinds of shapes and sizes since before we were making blades out of metal.
It’s hard to tell from the picture, but the styling and patina seem to be consistent with a 19th century piece.
Jay

It's a nice knife, but not a Old Original Patch Knife.

 

[olskool]

i do not think it was made in our time period. if you could hold it you can just tell. i know there are fake everything, but this looks and feels right. but anyway, it is cool,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Jaeger]

Original to 1985.

 

[olskool]

Original to 1985.

i have to say, you are incorrect,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Mowich]

My two bits is the knife might be a harness makers knife or a knife to be use in some kind of leather worker's trade.

 

[French Colonial]

Show one, just one, example from an archeological site that has a blade shape even similar to the one pictured and then you will have a better idea of its age.

 

[Jay Templin]

It's a nice knife, but not a Old Original Patch Knife.

 

[Artificer]

i got this knife from a person who bought a storage locker. it was mixed in with other black powder stuff. do ya'll think it is an original? the front of handle looks to maybe poured pewter. the wood handles look like mahogany it sure looks the part.View attachment 349788

Not sure how old the blade is, as it looks like it was ground down from a longer blade.

However, the use of cutlers rivets on the handle means at least the handle, as we see it, is no older than the 1880's.

Gus

 

[Juice Jaws]

View attachment 350171

No it's a fact, there is no documentation of using a small knife ( patch knife ) for the purpose of cutting patches. Don't blame the messenger .

 

[Jay Templin]

Not sure how old the blade is, as it looks like it was ground down from a longer blade.

However, the use of cutlers rivets on the handle means at least the handle, as we see it, is no older than the 1880's.

Gus

Those aren’t cutlers rivets, they’re solid brass pins that have been peened over, and they’re documented to the Bronze Age.

 

[olskool]

here are a few better shots.

 

[Jay Templin]

Yeah, definitely pins, not rivets. Mine often get the same cracking from not being annealed quite enough.
There’s a real beauty in the simple, clean lines of this little knife. A lot of modern makers- myself included- could learn a lot from studying these older pieces. Like how to not stress about not getting the pins right.

 

[Billy Boy]

here is the other side. it looks bigger in the photos than it really is. maybe it was a skinner, who knows but defiantly old,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
View attachment 349941

Looks well done, no matter when it was made

 

[Artificer]

here are a few better shots.
View attachment 350242View attachment 350243View attachment 350244View attachment 350245

Yep, with the better pictures, I can see they aren't cutlers rivets. Now I'm wondering if they are rivets and burs?

Gus

 

[Jay Templin]

Yep, with the better pictures, I can see they aren't cutlers rivets. Now I'm wondering if they are rivets and burs?

Gus

I’m not seeing any evidence of that- if it was, we should see a more-or-less circular mark indicating the two separate pieces of metal.
The first picture here is a locust-handled butcher knife I made in the late 90s. It has brass pins. The second is an antique I got from a friend- it had been in his family since at least the middle 1800s. It has 2 steel pins and a brass pin and burr.
Jay

 

[Mike in FL]

I don't t

Just because you think “patch knives” weren’t a thing doesn’t mean THAT knife isn’t original. There have been knives in all kinds of shapes and sizes since before we were making blades out of metal.
It’s hard to tell from the picture, but the styling and patina seem to be consistent with a 19th century piece.
Jay

I don't think we can know or declare there were no patch knives or ball starters. All we really have is circumstantial evidence. Just like ball starters and flintlock Hawkens. I think we should consider what COULD have been made. Maybe there were individuals living here and there who had such items but left no trace. I mean we can say with authority that the people 16th and 17th centuries had no 3D printers or helicopters or rifle scopes, but some of their activities and gadgets may have existed but have not been discovered.

 

[Mike in FL]

I don't think we can declare or say as fact that the 16th and 17th folks didn't have patch knives or short starters. They would certainly have the means to make such things. About the strongest thing we can say we can say circumstantial evidence indicates they did not and that none have been found. Everyone does things out of the norm to address individual needs and concerns. We CAN say as a certainty they didn't have 3D printers or cellphones or Chevrolets.

 

[Grenadier1758]

In an article in a 1935 "American Rifleman" on the Flintlock Rifle is a figure showing the contents of a shot bag associated with a flintlock rifle. There is an item that looks like a short starter but is identified as a "Bulger". In the article the Bulger is used to start the ball. No patch knife was in the figure although an arch punch device is shown and labeled as a patch cutter. Precut patches are shown on a thread.

How many items that we use had a different name back then?

Now back to the original posting of the patch knife. The shape of the handle appears more modern with the curves and full tang. The blade does look old. I have been mistaken when aging items before. I do like the looks of that knife and it should do an excellent job of cutting patches at the muzzle. Great find.

 

[Mike in FL]

I don't t

I don't think we can know or declare there were no patch knives or ball starters. All we really have is circumstantial evidence. Just like ball starters and flintlock Hawkens. I think we should consider what COULD have been made. Maybe there were individuals living here and there who had such items but left no trace. I mean we can say with authority that the people 16th and 17th centuries had no 3D printers or helicopters or rifle scopes, but some of their activities and gadgets may have existed but have not been discovered.

Phooey, I posted that twice. I thought the first one didn't go thru.

 

[Artificer]

I’m not seeing any evidence of that- if it was, we should see a more-or-less circular mark indicating the two separate pieces of metal.
The first picture here is a locust-handled butcher knife I made in the late 90s. It has brass pins. The second is an antique I got from a friend- it had been in his family since at least the middle 1800s. It has 2 steel pins and a brass pin and burr.
Jay

Hi Jay,

I have seen rivets pounded into burs and then the top surface filed smooth so the circular mark cannot be seen, especially when the metal ages. I'm not definite this is what is happening here, though.

I will also say if those are brass pins, the diameter of the pin must be far larger than I would ever expect to see on a knife handle.

I can't rule out cutlers rivets, though. Those shown below when pounded with a hammer and so much of the surface on each side is above the surface of the wood, it seems the cracks along the circumference could easily result.

Two-Piece Press-Fit Rivets for Wood​

Installed

Also known as cutlery rivets, the two heads provide a finished look on both sides of your material. Use a hammer or press to join the mating parts. Access to both sides of the material is required.


Gus