Primarily for a .50 Pedersoli Kentucky Flintlock.
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Best overall BP question
- Thread starter Flintlock Whiskey
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Point Taken.
longcruise
70 Cal.
I too found swiss to be excellent powder. However, I use Scheutzen because of their support for local clubs. So, I'll stick with it regardless of the future market for goex.
Swiss is also widely embraced by the international competitive community because of it's availability worldwide wide at international events. I've seen international shooters advised to use Swiss for that very reason.
NOT TO DETRACT FROM SWISS! It is probably the highest quality available.
Swiss is also widely embraced by the international competitive community because of it's availability worldwide wide at international events. I've seen international shooters advised to use Swiss for that very reason.
NOT TO DETRACT FROM SWISS! It is probably the highest quality available.
There are, and now you heard that here again,
,but the brand and type of powder simply isn't definitive, it's always an endless debate because each individual loads his individual gun within the variables of traditional BP guns.
That's why many of us got into this hobby, we grew tired of off the shelf simplicity.
There is an "Art" to developing an individual load that serves.
"One powder" is just not the best of other powders,,(shrug)
Swiss and Olde Ensford are "sporting" powders, they are different,, when you change one variable of the load, other changes may need to be made too serve.
"serve" your preference,,(not mine)
Get it?
That's why there's lot's of talk about powders.
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I'm not a match shooter, I was lucky to have stocked up on Old Eynsford 2f and 3f and I have a bunch of Schuetzen.
I also bought a case of Goex 1F for my .69's.
It depends on your goals. If you're just punching paper or shooting for fun , you don't need to scour the Earth to find Swiss.
Schuetzen works just fine in everything I've used it in and it's usually available. Goex is apparently starting production up again and when that becomes available I'll buy Goex.
I shoot a lot of revolvers and they are pretty forgiving and will shoot well with pretty much anything, including 1F Goex
I use what I can buy. If the gun shop has Schuetzen I buy Schuetzen
Old Eynsford works great in my .58 military rifles because the fouling stays softer. But I've used Schuetzen for 50+ Minies down the pipe with no cleaning too. The target didn't notice a difference.
I used Swiss in my .451 Volunteer rifle because people told me I had to, but I'm not shooting for medals so I've used everything in it after that.
I have a few cans of the subs laying around that I'm slowly burning up in revolvers, but I don't use it in rifles anymore.
I also bought a case of Goex 1F for my .69's.
It depends on your goals. If you're just punching paper or shooting for fun , you don't need to scour the Earth to find Swiss.
Schuetzen works just fine in everything I've used it in and it's usually available. Goex is apparently starting production up again and when that becomes available I'll buy Goex.
I shoot a lot of revolvers and they are pretty forgiving and will shoot well with pretty much anything, including 1F Goex
I use what I can buy. If the gun shop has Schuetzen I buy Schuetzen
Old Eynsford works great in my .58 military rifles because the fouling stays softer. But I've used Schuetzen for 50+ Minies down the pipe with no cleaning too. The target didn't notice a difference.
I used Swiss in my .451 Volunteer rifle because people told me I had to, but I'm not shooting for medals so I've used everything in it after that.
I have a few cans of the subs laying around that I'm slowly burning up in revolvers, but I don't use it in rifles anymore.
In the discussion on the "best powder" you'll find that there are the die hard "buy American" types who will support Goex to the hilt.
Get into the details and start asking these simple questions- What is Accuracy? How would you define Accuracy in your gun? What Accuracy are you satisfied with? What powders are the best shooters in the country/world using? To legitimately discuss accuracy, you need to have metrics meaning, a method of measuring it. Hitting a 12in gong doesn't count. Getting a deer every season doesn't count. Neither can be quantified or measured so there is no way to determine what is best.
I am a competition shooter. I am not satisfied with mediocre performance. Note that the charts posted earlier listed Swiss almost exclusively with a mention of Old Eynsford (a Goex premium powder). I started out doing my load development with Old E because Old E was sold at a reloading distributor near me. I've posted a number of pix of groups I've shot using Old E. Was I using Old E because of economics or I want to buy American? No, it's because it was the best I could get my hands on at the time locally. Fast forward, that distributor was bought out by another large reloading components distributor who didn't want the hassle of dealing with black powder so they dropped it and they quit selling anything else to the public. Enter Swiss at my next visit to Ft Shennandoah and Back Creek Gun Shop. Putting Swiss into my loads hasn't resulted in a spectacular increase in accuracy but it certainly didn't harm it and Swiss is readily available from BCGS. Couple that with my starting to work with youth in black powder/muzzleloading and the fact that Scheutzen fully supports black powder youth shooting sports while Goex does not and the switch to Swiss and Scheutzen exclusively wasn't a difficult decision.
In trying to determine what powder is best, you will need to experiment and do so in a controlled, methodical manner. Dutch Schoultz isn't a wizard at this, he just published a book on how to do it. There are no secrets and no short cuts and this is not rocket science. It is about being methodical and controlling variables.
Get into the details and start asking these simple questions- What is Accuracy? How would you define Accuracy in your gun? What Accuracy are you satisfied with? What powders are the best shooters in the country/world using? To legitimately discuss accuracy, you need to have metrics meaning, a method of measuring it. Hitting a 12in gong doesn't count. Getting a deer every season doesn't count. Neither can be quantified or measured so there is no way to determine what is best.
I am a competition shooter. I am not satisfied with mediocre performance. Note that the charts posted earlier listed Swiss almost exclusively with a mention of Old Eynsford (a Goex premium powder). I started out doing my load development with Old E because Old E was sold at a reloading distributor near me. I've posted a number of pix of groups I've shot using Old E. Was I using Old E because of economics or I want to buy American? No, it's because it was the best I could get my hands on at the time locally. Fast forward, that distributor was bought out by another large reloading components distributor who didn't want the hassle of dealing with black powder so they dropped it and they quit selling anything else to the public. Enter Swiss at my next visit to Ft Shennandoah and Back Creek Gun Shop. Putting Swiss into my loads hasn't resulted in a spectacular increase in accuracy but it certainly didn't harm it and Swiss is readily available from BCGS. Couple that with my starting to work with youth in black powder/muzzleloading and the fact that Scheutzen fully supports black powder youth shooting sports while Goex does not and the switch to Swiss and Scheutzen exclusively wasn't a difficult decision.
In trying to determine what powder is best, you will need to experiment and do so in a controlled, methodical manner. Dutch Schoultz isn't a wizard at this, he just published a book on how to do it. There are no secrets and no short cuts and this is not rocket science. It is about being methodical and controlling variables.
Ninering62
40 Cal
Me not being anywhere close to a " Traditional guy " as long as I can get T7 & BH 209 I don't care if I ever see reg BP again. To those that don't like that, plz read that last sentence again of the OP.
Like an old man said, that's what we fought for. Do your own thing!
I have used only Goex till a year or 3 back I bought on line, Schutzen was cheap, available and had good reviews. See no difference myself. I have no competition other than me, and I can be hard to beat. I shoot to reliably obtain the best group I can, so far about 2" on any given Sunday with a CVA hawkin at 90 yds. When I can regularly do better, if the powder was a factor, I will letta know. For now I will keep trying to keep up with myself!
MSmith
40 Cal
Try some of that T7 in 2f sometime and let me know what you think.
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That has been used in my 2" groupings. Have no problems with T7 at all. Before I found the forum and learned we could buy real BP online I used that pretty much exclusively over Pyrodex and saved my 2lbs of Goex for the flinter. Also LOVED Black MZ from Sportsman's warehouse at $10.00 a pound. Shoulda bought 10-20 lbs when they advised they were not making it anymore.
Has anyone used T7 in a flinter?
Bad idea unless you like serious hang time with hang fires.
Or complete failure to fire
MSmith
40 Cal
I haven't yet but I will and I'll let you know how it goes. Due to the season, give me a bit of time because I don't get to the range much in December.
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In the meantime, I found a couple youtube videos that might help to answer your question:
Hodgdon Triple 7 Flintlock Lyman Great Plains Lone Walker Causey Expert's opinions to the Grave.
Flintlock Hodgdon Triple 7 mian charge w/4f in the pan
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smoothshooter
50 Cal.
Most retailers don’t carry black powder because of the storage regulations, and the demand is pretty low anyway.
Also because 98% of the muzzle loader shooting public ( who only shoot in-lines ) has been conditioned to think black powder will clog up their barrels with residue and eat away at the steel on their gun like acid.
None of the hunting shows on TV promote anything but BP substitutes.
I had to quit watching those shows a few years ago. They kept getting me riled up for several reasons.
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Here's a link so you can try some..... I can't say if you should drive it like you stole it, but I'd buy some if I were you.
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/pro...y][product_cat][filter]=1&ixwpse=1&in_stock=1
MSmith
40 Cal
I'm almost two years late but as most of you know, life comes at you fast. I have tried Triple 7 2f & 3f in three different flintlocks over the last two weeks. My preliminary finding is that it shoots the first and second time out of a clean gun in perfect weather - dry, mid 70's. After that ignition is hit and miss.
Consequently, I will be sticking with black powder at least until I have done some lock tuning to rule out possible lock issues. That is on my list of things to do and hopefully it won't take two years to get that done. I will post an update as soon as I can.
For Clarity: Triple 7 in a cap lock is just as reliable as black powder. I have no issues there; in fact I prefer it.
stubshaft
40 Cal.
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I like T7 in a caplock and C&B pistol, but my supply is dwindling and no one here carries or will order anymore. As far as holy Black is concerned the ONLY powder I can get is Goex so that is my favorite! BTW - Powder Valley will NOT ship to Hawaii!
MSmith
40 Cal
Update: Thanks to the great people at L & R Lock company I was able to get my lock looked at, fixed and tuned. The lock now performs flawlessly! After a long day at the range (not complaining 
) determining that I do not have a lock problem, I started testing Triple 7 and discovered it is still hit and miss in a flint lock when used under the ball and black powder in the pan.
Next I decided to duplex: I started with 5 to 10 grains of 3f black powder, I used Olde Eynsford, topped off with 30 grains of Triple 7 3f and used the same 3f black powder in the pan to prime and guess what? It shot every time! But what surprised me more was that my group tightened up. So, I'm still testing but I do believe I'm on track.
*For Clarity: Triple 7 in a cap lock is just as reliable as black powder. I have no issues there; in fact, I prefer it.
) determining that I do not have a lock problem, I started testing Triple 7 and discovered it is still hit and miss in a flint lock when used under the ball and black powder in the pan.Next I decided to duplex: I started with 5 to 10 grains of 3f black powder, I used Olde Eynsford, topped off with 30 grains of Triple 7 3f and used the same 3f black powder in the pan to prime and guess what? It shot every time! But what surprised me more was that my group tightened up. So, I'm still testing but I do believe I'm on track.
*For Clarity: Triple 7 in a cap lock is just as reliable as black powder. I have no issues there; in fact, I prefer it.
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