Question for the many builders about lock finish

SDSmlf · Oct 6, 2024

Looking at the photographs of new build guns on the forum I’ve notice many of the locks have an ‘as cast’ appearance, no matter if it’s been rust browned (another topic), blued or left in the white. Am I missing something, as I have never seen an original gun’s lock with an ‘as cast’ finish ( how many were actually cast?), and when I see the cast finish it screams contemporary gun, kind of like the ‘engraving’ you see on TC or Lyman locks.

To me it’s like not draw filing a barrel. Or have I lead a sheltered life and original guns had that cast finish on their locks?

Phil Coffins · Oct 6, 2024

I believe that the average person is intimidated or overwhelmed by the effort needed to do a proper job. It can also add considerable time which many people don’t want to invest. You are right that original locks did not have the coarse cast finish even on the less expensive locks.

Hatchet-Jack · Oct 6, 2024

I've not seen any original guns with the lock left in a rough cast state. The gunsmith or his apprentice would file and polish the parts just as they did for the brass furniture.
Modern made locks have that grey investment cast surface. To do the job right that surface needs to be removed.

acavdragoon · Oct 6, 2024

I polish my locks, I have to remove the tool marks and casting marks. Even if I’m going to brown or blue them. The Kibler locks as great as they are gets polished. Really don’t know why people don’t do it, maybe the fear and not knowing how to take them apart?

Rudyard · Oct 6, 2024

SDSmlf said:
Looking at the photographs of new build guns on the forum I’ve notice many of the locks have an ‘as cast’ appearance, no matter if it’s been rust browned (another topic), blued or left in the white. Am I missing something, as I have never seen an original gun’s lock with an ‘as cast’ finish ( how many were actually cast?), and when I see the cast finish it screams contemporary gun? To me it’s like not draw filing a barrel. Or have I lead a sheltered life and original guns had that cast finish on their locks?

I've made patterns to sand cast yellow brass lock plates for the more archaic locks such as the Scots often used . But in general I don't think gunmakers had steel castings & certainly not the lost wax we have so common today . The forgings taken bright some might be blued but NONE had the frosted look nor where 'Browned' .& shewing parting lines . Modern US maker don't seem to harden the lock plates which have to come with out the plate hard as they will have to tap threads for the side nails (Which oft as not are also left soft , Even on high Dollar makers as I've found by testing with a needle file) Ile not name names but I don't leave frosted finish & I case harden both plate & side nails . So you are right, cast finish does scream contemporary work . Benin Bronzes were' lost wax' but not steel items . Later Benjimin Huntsman had crucible cast steel made he was a Sheffield clock maker who sought springs for his clocks. I once lived a mile or so from the Abbeydale industrial Hamlet where it was first produced & was still doing it occasionally if mostly for exhibit. in my time .
Rudyard

stubshaft · Oct 6, 2024

I take the time to disassemble the lock and polish it. To ME, matching the metal finish is important to give it a "completed" and not cobbled appearance.

tenngun · Oct 6, 2024

SDSmlf said:
Looking at the photographs of new build guns on the forum I’ve notice many of the locks have an ‘as cast’ appearance, no matter if it’s been rust browned (another topic), blued or left in the white. Am I missing something, as I have never seen an original gun’s lock with an ‘as cast’ finish ( how many were actually cast?), and when I see the cast finish it screams contemporary gun, kind of like the ‘engraving’ you see on TC or Lyman locks.

To me it’s like not draw filing a barrel. Or have I lead a sheltered life and original guns had that cast finish on their locks?

My first build was in the late 70s and my lock was the L and R English ‘waterproof’ style. I was told by the dealer not to finish it, or the barrel too, as that would make the browning solution easier to apply.
It was twenty years and a few guns made before I learned the right way

billraby · Oct 7, 2024

It's a great way to tell everyone that you don't really care about doing a good job and there are probably a few more things that you didn't care about doing right.

yellowhammer · Oct 7, 2024

Just do it

FlinterNick · Oct 7, 2024

SDSmlf said:
Looking at the photographs of new build guns on the forum I’ve notice many of the locks have an ‘as cast’ appearance, no matter if it’s been rust browned (another topic), blued or left in the white. Am I missing something, as I have never seen an original gun’s lock with an ‘as cast’ finish ( how many were actually cast?), and when I see the cast finish it screams contemporary gun, kind of like the ‘engraving’ you see on TC or Lyman locks.

To me it’s like not draw filing a barrel. Or have I lead a sheltered life and original guns had that cast finish on their locks?

Depends on the lock(s).

Fine English sporting guns had fine finishes, some were finer than others. I would say just above a satin finish around 600-800 grit.

On all of my lock builds i generally start low and work high with Japanese water stones, work progressively from 120-400 gr. Then do a final finish with either a unitized wheel or a fine wire wheel.

But they were often not in a casted state, a lot of original guns such as brown Bess’s still have file marks on them.

A much more important thing to do to locks is to debure them, you case used a small deburring tool or just a small file or paper to remove sharpe corners and make sure the locks work smooth. Appropriately hardening the parts after finishing them will make the work much better.

wiscoaster · Oct 7, 2024

I don't know what's "historically correct" and frankly I don't really care (much), so I disassemble the lock and then highly polish all the visible parts to where they shine if it's metal that I want to be "in the white". Of course, if it's to be blued or browned you shouldn't highly polish them because then the bluing or browning rusting process won't "take" nearly so well.

My example of "highly-polished" Kibler lock on Kibler Colonial:

wiscoaster · Oct 7, 2024

Phil Coffins said:
I believe that the average person is intimidated or overwhelmed by the effort needed to do a proper job. It can also add considerable time which many people don’t want to invest.

Yes, they are, and yes it is, and yes (IMO) I think it's worth it, if that's the effect you want. (see above)

If a person isn't willing to put in the time and the effort, then they shouldn't expect what can only be achieved by doing that.

Buff1958 · Oct 7, 2024

I have filed and sanded all of the ones I have built.
I really think beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Many folks love a rifle left in the white. To me it looks like they didn’t finish the gun.
Many folks like to really age their builds. I saw one here today on a thread that looked like it was pitted. I am sure to the builder and many others it looked great. To me it was awful.

The cool thing about building your own is that the only person you have to please is yourself

rich pierce · Oct 7, 2024

I always polish but in reality the customer doesn’t want to pay for it. I find it hard to polish a lock and tune it a bit in less than 2 hours from the get-go. 3 hours is common.

tenngun · Oct 7, 2024

billraby said:
It's a great way to tell everyone that you don't really care about doing a good job and there are probably a few more things that you didn't care about doing right.

That wasn’t the point Bill, it was wrong info I got from trusted people, suppliers of the parts.
I have to say, I learned more from your vids then so many book I’ve got

Tom A Hawk · Oct 7, 2024

I like a polished look.

tenngun · Oct 7, 2024

Tom A Hawk said:
I like a polished look.

View attachment 353898

Me too

Eric Krewson · Oct 7, 2024

I took this picture before I polished the lock after some test firing, the gun doesn't look finished to me, I had just grayed the barrel.

Polished looks much better;

Tom A Hawk · Oct 7, 2024

tenngun said:
Me tooView attachment 353901

Very nice wood.

Mgbruch · Oct 10, 2024

I don't polish my locks, but I do spend a lot of time on them with files, sandpaper down to 220 grit, and purple ScotchBrite. Here are photos of a Chambers Late Ketland locks, one not finished, but ready to inlet. One as it comes from Chambers. And one on a gun. And the other as it comes. Also a left handed L&R Durs Egg that has been finished and tune, ready to go on the finished gun... and on the gun.

I have no photos of an unfinished lock as part of one of my guns that I consider to be "finished". And neither should you.

Question for the many builders about lock finish

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