Flintlock or percussion for a first purchase?

ZUG said:

I am not familiar with what is available to you as far as supplies are concerned. Here are my feelings on what would be of interest to you and give you the least amount of issues while getting your feet wet in the muzzle loading game.
First BP firearm I would suggest would be a cap lock and buy #11 percussion caps NOW.
Your second rifle should be a flintlock and buy a can or two of REAL black powder because the flintlock will not set off substitute black powders.
Availability of either percussion caps or real black powder will be your deciding factor on which firearm you will be buying. Good Luck in your journey!

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Thanks for the advice and encouragement. I'm tending towards caps but will have a look at availability in New Zealand.

SDSmlf said:

You will hear about the pros and cons for each, depending who you ask.

I see you are in New Zealand, what do the majority of the shooters near you shoot? They may be able to mentor you. What guns have you actually shot?

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I'm not totally sure what most NZ shooters prefer but from what I've seen percussion seems to be more popular.

I own a lee enfield no.4 which I've been using for around half a year and I've also done quite a bit of shooting in the past with a 5 millimeter rifle and a double barrel shotgun.

Larry (Omaha) said:

I you are not a tinkerer, or detest working on what makes a flintlock tick, better get a caplock. If you want a challenge and more reward in the end get a flintlock. I am not saying flint is any better than cap, but to me there is more reward when it shoots like it was engineered to shoot.
Larry

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Thanks for the input. I'm good enough at tinkering when it's required but don't particularly enjoy it! So you make percussion sound appealing.

Phil Coffins said:

For bird hunting the Brown Bess will swing like a log, but then you don’t need a gun to hunt Weka. To start I’d see if caps are available and then if they are a percussion will be user friendly and effective. You have some steep country there so consider the weight and length for carrying.

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Thanks. I've taken my enfield no 4 hunting before and didn't find it too cumbersome so a muzzle loader of similar proportion would work ok I think.

awreis said:

I started hunting with inlines then got a flintlock for target shooting. I would have to say that it was a steep learning curve for me with my flintlock but it is also an older jukar rifle so it has a cheap lock. I will say though, it was very satisfying when I finally figured it out the rifle after doing some clockwork to it myself. I would also say that either way you go, YouTube and this forum will be your best friend. I have e learned a ton from both and both have save me a lot of headaches.

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Thanks. I do enjoy watching people prime and load flintlocks just with a paper cartridge but I fear I might accidentally shoot my hand off if i did it myself!

There is a learning curve for both. Loading is the same, putting a cap on is a no brainer, but priming and maintaining the flint is a little more challenging. If my end game was a flintlock than I would get one and figure out everything at the same time, not rocket science. If it's a caplock then get that.

Just got back from a two day woods walk match. I own a couple flinters. One custom, one a Lyman. One guy on my 'team' of five was new and had borrowed a T/C flint that was well maintained, his average was one ignition out of 3 tries, he was getting spark just not ignition. He showed marvelous fortitude as most people I know probably would have wrapped the rifle around a tree at about halfway through the sixteen stations. Another guy, an 'old hand' had a new to him trade smoothbore flint, he hit one out of sixteen. The third guy also had a multitude of issues with his. The weather was cool and dry. The second day a different group similar deal. Did not have a guy shooting a rock crusher did not have problems. I have been with guys who do have rifles that perform flawlessly and have kicked my butt accuracy wise. One fellow took top gun with a flinter the second day. If you have a huge capacity for aggravation choose flint by all means. I shot a Dixie poor boy capgun with a Japanese barrel, came in third out 25 shooters and did not have a shot not go off. Finding/paying for caps may be an issue, but I heard an ugly rumor at Friendship that Goex may start manufacturing number 11's. My two cents worth as unpopular as it will be.

I started on my muzzleloader journey with a flintlock and have never looked back. Have never owned a cap lock and really don’t have any desire to.
Like others have said, there’s a learning curve involved but that’s what I enjoy. A quality flintlock is a joy to shoot. A cheap junk one not so much.

as many others have said here get the percussion gun when you have it and shooting it successfully hitting your target where your aiming every time now your ready to start with the added learning to shoot a flint. they absolutely require more attention to the details. also remember that some will tell you that caps are difficult to find/expensive to buy, possibly.......but flints being what they are can be frustrating as h**l finding the shape your lock likes. and NO BODY CAN TELL how many shots you will get from a flint no matter where or who you buy them from, per shot they are as expensive or even more then caps. I personally get between 20 to fifty shots per flint even with knapping but have had a flint bust in half on the first shot there goes 3-5 dollars ! bottom line is this buy your supplies in bulk. don't wait until your out to re supply powder if stored properly never goes bad. caps are the same. flints flints can be as difficult as caps to find at times. flints unless you can sort them for the ones that work in your gun you'll get a bunch that you can't use ever time you order what ever quantity you decide to order. I enjoy shooting my flints as much as my percussion guns but don't let any body tell you that they are as easy to learn to shoot well I know a fair number of people that are good shooters that wanted to wrap their flintlock gun around the nearest tree because they couldn't get the quirks worked out!

Nabonidus62 said:

Hi guys, I'm finally getting round to buying my first muzzle loader after toying with the idea for a couple of years. (Going with a reproduction from Pedersoli).

I've decided on a smoothbore for the versatility but not sure if I want to go flint or percussion.

What are the pros and cons of each and is one more beginner friendly than the other?

I'll be taking the gun hunting for birds and deer and will also be using it for target shooting if you'd like to know.

From Pedersoli's catalogue I'll likely decide on one of these (Still open to suggestions though):

- Indian Trade Gun

- Brown Bess

- Carabinieri 1814

-1816 Harpers Ferry (Colt Conversion)

If anyone has some advice that might help my decision that would be great.

Cheers.

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A few thoughts…

1) Caps have been scarce but I’ve seen plenty recently. If you go percussion place a big order on caps and no more sweating.

2) You can make your own caps and I personally am a fan. DIY’s for fooling around and I run the real deals for taking game as the DIY’s aren’t 100%. I’m getting probably 95% on mine.

3) Some of the best advice I think I heard about flintlocks personally was a YouTube video that summed up was “don’t buy a flintlock until you can afford a quality one”.
There’s a lot of components that have to work in concert with one another for a flintlock to operate at peak performance. A slow or inconsistent lock will crucify your shooting skills. My first flintlock was a Pedersoli and I ran into these issues. While not having the skills or knowledge to “tune” this gun it received much less attention than I would have liked.

4) If it were me I would consider looking on the forum for sale section for a gun. It’s a near certainty that you can track down an equal or better (possibly much better) gun for the same price or less than you’d pay from a vendor.

Side note +1 for smooth bore. I would say unless you have a model you are visually married to id lean more towards a handy gun that’s not too heavy. One of my favorite guns to shoot is a traditions Pennsylvania carbine. It’s super light and quite short and that makes a huge difference in how long I’m enjoying reloading and shooting.

Sorry for the novel but that’s some of my personal experience food for thought here.

My main takeaway on the flint vs percussion ? would be if I were you, and going to buy a flint as my first and only gun, I’d 100% buy one here that’s been run and proven to have a fast and consistent lock.

Dexis said:

A few thoughts…

1) Caps have been scarce but I’ve seen plenty recently. If you go percussion place a big order on caps and no more sweating.

2) You can make your own caps and I personally am a fan. DIY’s for fooling around and I run the real deals for taking game as the DIY’s aren’t 100%. I’m getting probably 95% on mine.

3) Some of the best advice I think I heard about flintlocks personally was a YouTube video that summed up was “don’t buy a flintlock until you can afford a quality one”.
There’s a lot of components that have to work in concert with one another for a flintlock to operate at peak performance. A slow or inconsistent lock will crucify your shooting skills. My first flintlock was a Pedersoli and I ran into these issues. While not having the skills or knowledge to “tune” this gun it received much less attention than I would have liked.

4) If it were me I would consider looking on the forum for sale section for a gun. It’s a near certainty that you can track down an equal or better (possibly much better) gun for the same price or less than you’d pay from a vendor.

Side note +1 for smooth bore. I would say unless you have a model you are visually married to id lean more towards a handy gun that’s not too heavy. One of my favorite guns to shoot is a traditions Pennsylvania carbine. It’s super light and quite short and that makes a huge difference in how long I’m enjoying reloading and shooting.

Sorry for the novel but that’s some of my personal experience food for thought here.

My main takeaway on the flint vs percussion ? would be if I were you, and going to buy a flint as my first and only gun, I’d 100% buy one here that’s been run and proven to have a fast and consistent lock.

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All good info for the OP but he lives in New Zealand ----

Dexis said:

4) If it were me I would consider looking on the forum for sale section for a gun. It’s a near certainty that you can track down an equal or better (possibly much better) gun for the same price or less than you’d pay from a vendor.

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You may want to explain how to ship any gun purchased on this forum to New Zealand.

many many years ago I had a friend who taught drivers education at a high school. He always ordered cars with a standard transmission. stick shift if you will.
his reason was that if the kids learned to drive a stick they could drive anything.
go with a flint lock. master it and those funny other guns that use a little cap will be a snap! no pun intended!

Duk said:

If your just starting go with the percussion, once you get it all figured out buy a flint,

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BEST advice.

waksupi said:

Gentlemen shoot flintlocks, as do gentlewomen. With a quality lock, I personally think the flintlock has a faster learning curve.

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Magic word.
"With a quality lock"
Learned that the hard way.

Nabonidus62 said:

Hi guys, I'm finally getting round to buying my first muzzle loader after toying with the idea for a couple of years. (Going with a reproduction from Pedersoli).

I've decided on a smoothbore for the versatility but not sure if I want to go flint or percussion.

What are the pros and cons of each and is one more beginner friendly than the other?

I'll be taking the gun hunting for birds and deer and will also be using it for target shooting if you'd like to know.

From Pedersoli's catalogue I'll likely decide on one of these (Still open to suggestions though):

- Indian Trade Gun

- Brown Bess

- Carabinieri 1814

-1816 Harpers Ferry (Colt Conversion)

If anyone has some advice that might help my decision that would be great.

Cheers.

Click to expand...

Both are fun and I have both, but a flintlock is more fun and makes more smoke! Also percussion caps have been hard to find since Covid and when you do find them in the right size, prices have gone through the roof. Flints are not only much less expensive, but if you get your flintlock set up right, you can get upwards of 100-shots out of the same flint.

Flintlocks can be frustrating to learn as a beginner if you try to do it all on your own. I tried that and then found this forum, which made a huge difference. I still use the patch lube called "Stumpy's Moose Snot" that I learned how to make over 20-years ago now from @Stumpkiller here on the forum and I make sure my flint strikes my frizzen at the right angle to scrape lots of sparks off the frizzen instead of smashing the edge or breaking part of it off the bottom of the flint. It's a Goldilocks thing - get it right and it just seems to use the same flint forever. Get it wrong and you'll go through flints pretty quickly, or even break them in half if the angle is way out of whack.

One caveat about flintlocks though is they won't ignite the Black Powder Substitutes such as Pyrodex. The substitute powders require about a 400°F hotter spark to ignite them than you'll get out of a flintlock. They work fine for percussion cap though as long as you can find a supply of caps. I actually did get my first flintlock to go off a few times using Triple7, but that would be about 1 out of 10 or 15 tries. I was living in Vermont and was very bummed until I found out I could go just 6-miles up the road to the next village where I could buy black powder from a supplier who carried it in all kinds of grades and variations for the slate quarries in the area. Black powder explosions generate lower frequency vibrations which break off larger chunks of slate, so it you have a quarry around you, ask them where they get their black powder.

Of course, we lived about 3 miles from one of those slate quarries and whenever they decided to exceed the maximum charge they were allowed to use, it would knock things off the shelves in our house.

Flintlocks are cool. Percussion is boring.

I started over 40 years ago with a percussion having heard that was easier to learn and begin with. Because it was an older system flintlocks were considered an "advanced" system for black powder shooters. I shot the percussion for some years before I decided to get my first flintlock, a Pedersoli Kentucky. Since then I have gotten 3 more flintlocks, none of which were production guns. The percussion is a Sile; I put a Green Mountain barrel on it and never shot it. Except for occasionally shooting revolver and my Richmond musket I shoot flintlock exclusively now. A well made lock in flint is just as reliable as a caplock; however in my experience the Pedersoli lock on my Kentucky was not. The locks on the other 3 are. Perhaps Pedersoli has changed or the larger locks are better. I bought a M1777 Pedersoli last year and was pleasantly surprised with the trigger pull and the sparks. Nothing like the Kentucky I bought in 1991. You would probably find the percussion easier to learn. Things have changed since I started in 1980, particularly the cost of things and availability. As others have said I would suggest you see what is available to you, if possible start with a percussion and spend time getting to know it, and then move on to flint. Once you are comfortable with flint your fun will take off.

Did the young Daniel Boone start with a percussion gun before learning to shoot a flintlock?

Not trying to be a smart aleck, just throwing out a question.