Flintlock or percussion for a first purchase?

[Nabonidus62]

Yes, as a practical matter the supply issue would dictate my choice.

If caps are spotty then Flintlock, as you won't need them

If real black powder is short, then caplock if caps are around, as a flintlock will not work with substitutes for holy black.

If neither is available or both can be cut off, then the flintlock is the obvious choice as given simple and usually readily available or makeable Sulphur, saltpeter and charcoal, you can make your own powder if legal to do so there. Making caps is a bit more problematic.

Flintlock would be my personal first choice as it possesses a more "self-sufficient" feel and is historically linked and romanticized with the creation of my country.

Either requires some adaptations from cartridge guns, but one is no more difficult to master than the other, given quality locks, and you should be fine with Pedersoli in that aspect.


Round the world there are far more percussion guns than flint, as it is more modern and ignition is less of a problem, largely due to their ability to use substitutes like Pyrodex, which are all that is available in some places. In remote places where caps and substitute powders are at a premium, then flints rule.

I have a couple of Lee Enfields myself and have found them an accurate and interesting rifle, especially in their historic significance.

From a self sufficiency perspective its actually easier to make percussion caps in NZ because as far as I know there is no naturally occurring flint in the country. It all had to be imported from England originally.

I don't think it's illegal to make your own black powder here although I'd need to check up on it. Could be a good option.

I do love my enfield, definitely one of the most iconic firearms from history. It's also probably one of the most advanced guns it's still legal to own in new zealand.

 

[Nabonidus62]

When I compare the two types of ignition systems, I always refer to the flint lock as being the art of traditional muzzleloading. The percussion lock is the triumph of technology to make an easier to manufacture and more reliable ignition system.

A percussion lock can be reliable as it comes from the factory. I have not come across any flint lock that doesn't benefit from tuning the lock for smooth functioning. This is as simple as smoothing all the burrs off the rubbing parts or as complex as smoothing the mating parts and balancing the springs to flattening the pan cover of the frizzen to the pan and adjusting the **** for a better scraping strike angle on the frizzen face. Getting one's flint lock properly tuned is one of the reasons that a percussion lock system is often better for beginning the traditional muzzleloading experience.

Thanks for the advice. I personally would prefer a more reliable piece right off the bat since it will be my first one and I'm also in my early 20s and it's already a bit of an investment for me financially.

 

[Pukatea Bay Boy]

For bird hunting the Brown Bess will swing like a log, but then you don’t need a gun to hunt Weka. To start I’d see if caps are available and then if they are a percussion will be user friendly and effective. You have some steep country there so consider the weight and length for carrying.

Morena Phil .... Ahhh you know athing or 2 about Wekas
( your comment gave me a BIG smile )
Go well Ehoa

 

[Pukatea Bay Boy]

Hi guys, I'm finally getting round to buying my first muzzle loader after toying with the idea for a couple of years. (Going with a reproduction from Pedersoli).

I've decided on a smoothbore for the versatility but not sure if I want to go flint or percussion.

What are the pros and cons of each and is one more beginner friendly than the other?

I'll be taking the gun hunting for birds and deer and will also be using it for target shooting if you'd like to know.

From Pedersoli's catalogue I'll likely decide on one of these (Still open to suggestions though):

- Indian Trade Gun

- Brown Bess

- Carabinieri 1814

-1816 Harpers Ferry (Colt Conversion)

If anyone has some advice that might help my decision that would be great.

Cheers.

Morena Nabonious,
Where are you thinking of hunting ? Take that into consideration. Steep country & weight of gun. Flint / percussion will both work. Different techniques with either.
Is there a Black powder clun around your ways? I'd suggest you go along & try some members Cap/ Flints 1st if that's possible?
Liquid sunshine is something to concder here.( RAIN) cap is a little eaiser I find.
If going for Deer I'd sudgest a rifiled gun ... gives a bit mpre accuracy & longer range . Last thing yud want is to wound a animal.
Are yui are going to use gun for Birds/& Aminals.i see your point smooth. Just get Close I guess.
& stalking pick a lighting rifle... you won't regret that
Wayne in the gun shop Wellington upper Hutt is a great dealer of Pedosoilis ..I'd strongly recommend getting in touch with him .
0274221551 is his phone number. & he has all you could wish & need for cap/ flint.
But go along to a club and try both. You may fall in love with both ..... bye bye bank savings
All the best in your mission. Keep in touch. Be great to hear how you get on.
Ata Marie
Pukatea Boy

 

[Eric Krewson]

Starting out I would go with a percussion rifle instead of a smoothbore, the learning curve for a rifle is much shorter than a smoothbore. After you get this B/P loading, shooting and cleaning stuff down, buy a smoothbore in flint.

 

[Nabonidus62]

Morena Nabonious,
Where are you thinking of hunting ? Take that into consideration. Steep country & weight of gun. Flint / percussion will both work. Different techniques with either.
Is there a Black powder clun around your ways? I'd suggest you go along & try some members Cap/ Flints 1st if that's possible?
Liquid sunshine is something to concder here.( RAIN) cap is a little eaiser I find.
If going for Deer I'd sudgest a rifiled gun ... gives a bit mpre accuracy & longer range . Last thing yud want is to wound a animal.
Are yui are going to use gun for Birds/& Aminals.i see your point smooth. Just get Close I guess.
& stalking pick a lighting rifle... you won't regret that
Wayne in the gun shop Wellington upper Hutt is a great dealer of Pedosoilis ..I'd strongly recommend getting in touch with him .
0274221551 is his phone number. & he has all you could wish & need for cap/ flint.
But go along to a club and try both. You may fall in love with both ..... bye bye bank savings
All the best in your mission. Keep in touch. Be great to hear how you get on.
Ata Marie
Pukatea Boy

Thanks for the advice mate, tu meke.

Most hunting I've done has been in the bush north of Auckland since I'm Rodney based. I think there was a black powder club in Auckland which is now defunct unfortunately.

Yeah a shorter gun for the bush would be better, which makes the brown bess carbine look like a good option, but if im to go with percussion smoothbore it would have to be the harpers ferry which is a full length gun.

I do a gree that a rifle for deer would probably be more appropriate but I'm infatuated with smoothbores for their versatility. So I think I'll just have to put in a lot of target practice and maybe attach a rear sight to the gun for better accuracy. I'd never want to wound a deer without killing it of course.

I think I'll try attend one of the Rotorua clubs events and see what they think.

Cheers.

 

[Nabonidus62]

Starting out I would go with a percussion rifle instead of a smoothbore, the learning curve for a rifle is much shorter than a smoothbore. After you get this B/P loading, shooting and cleaning stuff down, buy a smoothbore in flint.

Sound advice but I find smoothbores really interesting and I've also heard that pedersoli guns can have unreliable rifling quality as well. That could just be a rumor though.

 

[bpd303]

Here is a novel idea that I don't think has been mentioned. If your wallet will allow it get both. Any way if you enjoy shooting muzzle loaders you will get both eventually, and you can always sell the one you don't like.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I have both. Pedersoli Frontier flintlock and percussion. Both great fun, both good shooters. I shoot the caplock better than the flint but starting to figure out the flint. Takes time.

 

[Nabonidus62]

Here is a novel idea that I don't think has been mentioned. If your wallet will allow it get both. Any way if you enjoy shooting muzzle loaders you will get both eventually, and you can always sell the one you don't like.

Ha ha very true. My wallets rather small unfortunately so I'll have to satisfy myself with one nice thing at a time.

 

[ligonierbill]

Lots of good thoughts here. I shoot mostly rock locks, all good ones. But I do have two new fangled caplocks: one 19th century smallbore target rifle (gift from my brother) and one late Hawken replica that I built. Certainly the caplock is faster, almost as fast as a modern cartridge gun. But a good flinter is pretty close. I don't think there is a progression, cap to flint. You should pick the one you want, period, and learn to shoot it well. Really, good rifle technique does not depend on the ignition system.

 

[nhmoose]

Get the flintlock. When you learn to shoot it you will never get a capper.

 

[Garbear34]

Flintlock