Investarms Santa Fe .36 Range Update!

Leadriver · Aug 25, 2023

Ok well I went back to the range today. Did make some headway. Target one shows X marks that were shot with 25 grains and .005 muslin. Shots were erratic and I could not find any patches. The group that's circled was 40gr with .010 twill. I dont remember if i swabbed or not between shots.

Target 2 was shot with 40 grains marked with an X. The circled group was shot using 35grains.

Target 3 is hard to follow but I was running outta targets. The square marked ones were again 40grains stabbed I between shots. The O's were 45 gr swabbed between shots. The X's were 35gr swabbed between shots. The final group was shot with consecutively with 40 gr not swabbed between shots. That group was 8 shots. 5 were just under an 1" right beside the bull.

Leadriver · Aug 25, 2023

I'm still scratching my head. Seems the gun wants to be dirty to pull a good group. Maybe instead or a .010 twill patch, I might need to go up to a .015 twill to build more pressure. It may or may not tighten the groups. My front sight is an issue aswell at 50yds it completely cover the 3" target.

azmntman · Aug 25, 2023

I still gotta get that thin stuff sent to ya. Been a crazy week! Some guys always fire a shot fist before hunting. I do (so I know I wont get a hang/mis fire)

Leadriver · Aug 25, 2023

Oh I almost forgot, here is a picture of my local range. Someone asked about my setup so here it is. Don't mind the spotting scope, I got tired of walking back on forth to see the holes.

ETipp · Aug 26, 2023

Leadriver said:
I'm still scratching my head. Seems the gun wants to be dirty to pull a good group. Maybe instead or a .010 twill patch, I might need to go up to a .015 twill to build more pressure. It may or may not tighten the groups. My front sight is an issue aswell at 50yds it completely cover the 3" target.

Different rifle I know. Just throwing this out there for you in hopes of helping.

I have found that sights, both front and rear, makes a huge difference with at least my .32 Crockett rifle. I've also proven that it is, in no other terms, one of those true "Aim small, miss small" rifles. More so than any other rifle I have ever shot or owned. So indeed, a finer front bead makes a huge difference.

Also, in conjunction with finer sights I've found that making a target with a very small aiming dot, diamond or square makes a big difference in accuracy. I make a black 3/4" diamond aim spot to where its just a tad lager than the finer front bead can cover at 25 yards. Aim small, miss small. Conventional wisdom will try to tell us that the lager the aim spot, the better our groups will be. That is counter intuitive. Finer sights (especially the front bead) and smaller aim spot.

And finally the one thing I learned the hard way was (and I know not if that pertains to your ML) the Crockett likes a loose hold. Every time I choke down on it, its a miss.

One thing is for certain. Anytime one is searching for most accurate load it would behoove one to keep every thing the same until thoroughly ruled out. Tee shirt and blue jean material may be consistent in thickness but are not consistent in weave.

One last thing, are the wedge pin(s) tight in the lugs?

Good luck with your .36 ML. I would like to have one for sure.

Leadriver · Aug 26, 2023

ETipp said:
Different rifle I know. Just throwing this out there for you in hopes of helping.

I have found that sights, both front and rear, makes a huge difference with at least my .32 Crockett rifle. I've also proven that it is, in no other terms, one of those true "Aim small, miss small" rifles. More so than any other rifle I have ever shot or owned. So indeed, a finer front bead makes a huge difference.

Also, in conjunction with finer sights I've found that making a target with a very small aiming dot, diamond or square makes a big difference in accuracy. I make a black 3/4" diamond aim spot to where its just a tad lager than the finer front bead can cover at 25 yards. Aim small, miss small. Conventional wisdom will try to tell us that the lager the aim spot, the better our groups will be. That is counter intuitive. Finer sights (especially the front bead) and smaller aim spot.

And finally the one thing I learned the hard way was (and I know not if that pertains to your ML) the Crockett likes a loose hold. Every time I choke down on it, its a miss.

One thing is for certain. Anytime one is searching for most accurate load it would behoove one to keep every thing the same until thoroughly ruled out. Tee shirt and blue jean material may be consistent in thickness but are not consistent in weave.

One last thing, are the wedge pin(s) tight in the lugs?

Good luck with your .36 ML. I would like to have one for sure.

Yea it has only 1 wedge pin and its tight. I think I'm going to file the front sight to have more of a post than a dot. Then I'm gunna put white dots on the rear and front sights.

Jaeger73 · Aug 26, 2023

LR,
It may take some time but you'll get it figured out. I'm kind of in the same boat with a newly acquired slightly used Crocket in 32cal. I have kept my patching material the same, as well as powder charge and swab the barrel after 5 shots once I move onto a different lube. So far I have found spit patches and preluded patch to be the best as far as grouping. Some on here will frown upon my method of using a 6o'clock hold but it helps me get things figured out and then I will go from there. Stick with and you'll get.

smokepolehall · Aug 26, 2023

Leadriver said:
I'm still scratching my head. Seems the gun wants to be dirty to pull a good group. Maybe instead or a .010 twill patch, I might need to go up to a .015 twill to build more pressure. It may or may not tighten the groups. My front sight is an issue aswell at 50yds it completely cover the 3" target.

If your front sight covers your target at 50 yards. Try a 6 o'clock hold on all shots.

Leadriver · Aug 26, 2023

smokepolehall said:
If your front sight covers your target at 50 yards. Try a 6 o'clock hold on all shots.

I think I will give that a try. The dot is kinda big so I may try and file it to look more like a post per say. I think I'll try the 6 o'clock hold before I do any filing.

ETipp · Aug 27, 2023

Jaeger73 said:
LR,
It may take some time but you'll get it figured out. I'm kind of in the same boat with a newly acquired slightly used Crocket in 32cal. I have kept my patching material the same, as well as powder charge and swab the barrel after 5 shots once I move onto a different lube. So far I have found spit patches and preluded patch to be the best as far as grouping. Some on here will frown upon my method of using a 6o'clock hold but it helps me get things figured out and then I will go from there. Stick with and you'll get.

I'm out of this one.

Good luck!

Leadriver · Aug 27, 2023

I'd rather just sight it in for 30 yards but my local range doesn't allow you to bring target stands.

Mad Hatter · Aug 30, 2023

Leadriver said:
I'd rather just sight it in for 30 yards but my local range doesn't allow you to bring target stands.

Your fourth target on the inital post shows to be the most precise, of all targets shown indicating your on task, and getting traction. It would be benafical to post this where you can see it multiply time a day, and put the rest out of sight and mind. Lots good stuff in post # 45. You will find the right combo. I have my own .36 cal. combo. issues although casting spread is + or - 1.5 tenths for 90% plus as cast. Happy shooting

Leadriver · Aug 31, 2023

Well I went back to the range today. I think I have it figured out. I tried 35, 40, 45 grains again with the .010 twill match lubed with mink oil. Groups weren't bad but I started to notice when there was any fouling that made the ball seat just ever so slightly more pressure it would throw a wild flier. So I started swabbing first every 4 shot, then 3 and finally 2. Groups improved alot. My final group was swabbed between every 2nd shot, once down and up with a moist spit patch. My final group of the day at 50 yds was awesome I think. Then I ran over to the 25yrd line with semi support try a few. Looked good aswell with one hit slightly higher than the other 3. What do ya think?

Mulebrain · Aug 31, 2023

Zero need to swab with good lube, 40 dawn 60 water and roll on.

100 yards off hand

Leadriver · Aug 31, 2023

Mulebrain said:
Zero need to swab with good lube, 40 dawn 60 water and roll on.

100 yards off hand

View attachment 249548

This will be a hunting gun. I wanted a lube that could stay in the barrel. I don't have to swab between shots but accuracy isnt as good as when i swab every 2 shots. Mink oil is pretty well regarded as a good lube.

Leadriver · Sep 1, 2023

I think it's good enough for squirrel, I'll prob never shoot past 50yds. Most shots I get are 30 or less. I live in PA so it is really heavily wooded in my area. Especially in the early season, I ranged squirrels I seen from around my yard and most are between 25-35 yds.

azmntman · Sep 1, 2023

I think yer there buddy, excellen shooting. And those that say no need to swab have not sited in you (our) guns. Each guns different. Some of mine I dont ever have to and some every shot. You done good!

hanshi · Sep 2, 2023

Not being familiar with the type of rifle you have limits what I might suggest. I used mink oil as the lube of choice back when I hunted but found loading easier and accuracy at least as good using Hoppes BP Lube at the range and sometimes on morning hunts. Both worked great in my rifle. My .36 did its best with accuracy when using a .350" ball, 30 grns of 3F and a mattress ticking (.016" compressed) or canvas (.024" compressed) lubed with mink oil or Hoppes BP Lube. But 20 grns of 3F did about as well with less powder.

I've always found it a waste of time to weigh cast ball. Tested side by side they both went into the same hole. In general I'd expect 1" to sub 1" groups at 40 yards with a good .36 rifle. This from a solid bench set up under very fine weather conditions. A good test is to have another good or better shooter try out those loads.

Leadriver · Sep 2, 2023

hanshi said:
Not being familiar with the type of rifle you have limits what I might suggest. I used mink oil as the lube of choice back when I hunted but found loading easier and accuracy at least as good using Hoppes BP Lube at the range and sometimes on morning hunts. Both worked great in my rifle. My .36 did its best with accuracy when using a .350" ball, 30 grns of 3F and a mattress ticking (.016" compressed) or canvas (.024" compressed) lubed with mink oil or Hoppes BP Lube. But 20 grns of 3F did about as well with less powder.

I've always found it a waste of time to weigh cast ball. Tested side by side they both went into the same hole. In general I'd expect 1" to sub 1" groups at 40 yards with a good .36 rifle. This from a solid bench set up under very fine weather conditions. A good test is to have another good or better shooter try out those loads.

I tried all loads and 40 is the ONLY one that will shoot. I'm sure with more experimentation I could tighten the groups up some more but our squirrel season opens next Saturday and I'm tired of playing around with it lol. I did throw 1 shot high at 50 but that was me I knew when it went off that it was going to be high. I felt the gun slide backwards ever so slightly. I open sights are a limitation aswell, the front sight covers the whole 3" bull at 50. I started using a 6 o'clock hold as suggested by another member and it helped. 1.250 group at 50 is good enough for me for now, I just wanted it good enough for tree rats. Like I said most shots are 35 yards here or less. I want to get a globe sight for the front and mill a rear sight with a peep using my mill. So for this year it's good unless I find out I'm missing alot then I'll put it back on the bags and do my homework again. The 25yd groups wasn't on bags just supported by the board they have there to rest the pistols on. If it was on bags I know they would almost certainly be almost in one hole. As it stands it's 1" high at 25 and dead on at 50.

Elmerfudd · Oct 15, 2024

Would like to see an update on this rifle. How did you do with it during hunting season. I am thinking about pulling the trigger on the kit version of this for a winter project….though I don’t really know why; I have 3 muzzleloaders hanging on the wall that I have not fired YET. The honey do list is getting short enough that I will be getting to the range soon and hopefully get a little hunting in this winter.

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