Fire Retardant Paper Cartridges

Frankdkk · Oct 4, 2024

I plan to make smoothbore rifle paper cartridges to hunt in deep woods. I’m considering Kraft paper or even ordinary printer paper. But concern is I don’t ever want to start a forest fire when smoldering papers shoot out of my gun.

I saw Borax mentioned for a soaking solution for the paper. Does this adequately retard smoldering paper? Is there any downside to doing this?

I also saw fire retardants in a spray bottle from Amazon. I’m thinking a few squirts on my cartridge papers might be easy before I form them. Has anyone tried this?

Thanks!

Phil Coffins · Oct 4, 2024

How about trying it yourself? Do a test piece then use a match at home to see if it’s worth testing in a firearm.

Frankdkk · Oct 4, 2024

Phil Coffins said:
How about trying it yourself? Do a test piece then use a match at home to see if it’s worth testing in a firearm.

I may have to do so.. But this seems too easy so I’m wondering if I’m missing something.
Obvious test is indeed try to light a treated paper sample, and other test might be to determine if it’s corrosive
Thank you for the reply.

Chuck Tiller · Friday at 6:30 PM

1. Treat several papers at home.
2. From the papers that pass, make BLANK cartridges
3. Take the blanks to a safe area. Load them with some kind of wadding tamped over them. Newsprint or cleaning patches work well. Remember to pickup afterwards.
4. Test for ignition and RECORD your results.
5. Make a report to the curious. Thanks.

wiscoaster · Friday at 8:00 PM

Chuck Tiller said:
.....
5. Make a report to the curious. Thanks.

That would be me.

deerstalkert · Friday at 8:07 PM

how about eliminating smoldering paper? treat your paper with nitrate and have it burn up in the barrel. i have never had nitrated paper leave my pistol barrel to smolder in the grass so i imagine it would be gone by the time it exits a rifle barrel.
I would worry more about a smoldering patch. but i again assume you are using a conical in your cartridge?

FlinterNick · Saturday at 8:15 AM

Frankdkk said:
I plan to make smoothbore rifle paper cartridges to hunt in deep woods. I’m considering Kraft paper or even ordinary printer paper. But concern is I don’t ever want to start a forest fire when smoldering papers shoot out of my gun.

I saw Borax mentioned for a soaking solution for the paper. Does this adequately retard smoldering paper? Is there any downside to doing this?

I also saw fire retardants in a spray bottle from Amazon. I’m thinking a few squirts on my cartridge papers might be easy before I form them. Has anyone tried this?

Thanks!

I use baking parchment to make my cartridges, it doesn’t burn from shooting, also looks authentic. It holds a wax coating nicely too.

wiscoaster · Saturday at 8:21 AM

deerstalkert said:
how about eliminating smoldering paper? treat your paper with nitrate and have it burn up in the barrel. i have never had nitrated paper leave my pistol barrel to smolder in the grass so i imagine it would be gone by the time it exits a rifle barrel.
I would worry more about a smoldering patch. but i again assume you are using a conical in your cartridge?

I don't think OP gave us enough information about his gun; eg is it flint, where his cartridge is rip, pour and stuff as wad, or is it percussion, where it's rammed intact?

ZUG · Saturday at 1:22 PM

If I was concerned about starting fires during my hunt, I would not use any product that may cause that fire in the first place. This statement may not be practical, but I don't see how to get around the OP question. The very nature of shooting a muzzle loading firearm produces burning embers being ejected out of the muzzle every time the gun is fired. If you do solve the burning patch/paper cartridge issue what about the burning embers? :dunno:

Frankdkk · Sunday at 2:19 AM

Thank you for all the replies. I will try soaking my cartridge papers in borax water and I will also consider using parchment paper.

Specific application is I want to use a 20ga smoothbore as a backup hunting gun, and to load it with paper cartridges with “buck and ball”. These would be typical paper cartridges that tie all the balls together and be stuffed down the bore as wadding

I understand the black powder itself has some issue with burning embers, but I think far greater fire hazard would be from burning cartridge papers

wiscoaster · Sunday at 9:12 AM

I think you'll be OK either method. I made some buck 'n ball and also just ball cartridges from light brown kraft wrapping paper (untreated) to shoot in a smoothbore and my experience was that the paper shredded and charred but no evidence the shreds were still burning burning when they hit the ground. I suppose your main factor wtr starting a fire is your local fire risk conditions.

Frankdkk · Sunday at 12:26 PM

Thank you for the reply. I expect local fire risk conditions to be low but I am trying to be very conservative. My next will be a winter hunt for big hogs in eastern Tennessee

Frankdkk · Sunday at 12:56 PM

Thanks again for the replies.
I’m new to black powder but been hunting for a number of years. I decided I wanted a fun direction away from all my centerfire rifles.
So I just built a 54cal flintlock Kibler Woodsrunner as my primary hog hunting gun.. And my short range backup is a double barrel 20ga smoothbore Howdah. Our hunt happens in January so that gives me lots of time to practice.
Wish me luck!

wiscoaster · Sunday at 1:35 PM

Frankdkk said:
....
So I just built a 54cal flintlock Kibler Woodsrunner as my primary hog hunting gun.....

Ah!!!!

I think that's next on my Kibler wanna list. Do you have a pic you can post?

Frankdkk · Sunday at 3:29 PM

wiscoaster said:
Ah!!!! I think that's next on my Kibler wanna list. Do you have a pic you can post?

I’m pretty decent with woodworking but this kit didn’t take any effort at all.
The wood is the fancy maple with Aqua Fortis stain, one coat of 2pound non wax shellac, and multiple coats of “Tried and True” varnish oil.

I was also happy with the Jax Black patina solution on the steel, and Jax Brown on the brass

wiscoaster · Sunday at 4:02 PM

Frankdkk said:
....
I was also happy with the Jax Black patina solution on the steel, and Jax Brown on the brass

I think your metal work on there is especially well done. :thumb:

beyu · Monday at 11:00 PM

Frankdkk said:
I saw Borax mentioned for a soaking solution for the paper. Does this adequately retard smoldering paper? Is there any downside to doing this?

I make paper cartridges for my Charleville. The paper I use is newsprint and I do not treat the paper with anything. I find it almost always burns up completely during firing. Very rarely have I seen any smoldering bits of paper on the ground, but when I have, it burns up completely in seconds.

But I think you may be asking the wrong question; seeking to RETARD BURNING of the paper rather than to ensure it is completely burnt up as it leaves the muzzle. After all — if it is completely burned up, there will be nothing left to smolder on the ground and to start a fire.

So I would say that perhaps you should consider following the good advice of those here who advocate soaking the paper in potassium nitrate to help it burn all the faster...

Here is a link to a discussion of the subject in this forum:

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/potassium-nitrate-paper.98486/

wiscoaster · 2024-10-29T08:47:13-0400

beyu said:
.....

But I think you may be asking the wrong question; seeking to RETARD BURNING of the paper rather than to ensure it is completely burnt up as it leaves the muzzle. After all — if it is completely burned up, there will be nothing left to smolder on the ground and to start a fire.

.....

Except that the purpose of the paper cartridge with a musket is entirely different than a cap 'n ball revolver. In the one it serves as wadding after emptying the charge into the barrel, whereas in the other it serves only as a container for the charge. You don't want the wadding to burn up and disintegrate inside the barrel, because it has a reason for being in there. Whereas the opposite in the revolver.

Frankdkk · 2024-10-29T12:17:24-0400

Beyu,
I am new to black powder but I’m thinking for a shotgun or “Buck and Ball” application like mine.. I think the paper is supposed to form a cup to contain the shot balls until they leave barrel of the gun - so I actually don’t think I want them to burn up quickly in that case.
On another matter I also thought about getting a Charleville. Where did you get yours and how do you like it?

wiscoaster · 2024-10-29T15:52:07-0400

Frankdkk said:
....
On another matter I also thought about getting a Charleville. Where did you get yours and how do you like it?

Keep watching the ads posted here. Charlevilles come up here from time to time. I bought a Miroku from a fellow forum member. I've also bought a number of other black powder muzzleloader firearms from fellow forum members and I've found those sellers to be more reliable and reputable than Gunbroker sellers, who are constrained by any number of auction site rules and procedures, whereas here, the primary determinant is the approprobation of one's fellow peer group members. IE nobody wants to get a reputation as a "deadbeat". :thumb:

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