Main Charge Powder in the Frizzen Pan

Terrier · Oct 29, 2024

I use 3fg powder in my Kibler SMR and get pretty good accuracy… I’ve been using Goex for the past 2 years that I’d bought in the early 90s, but I recently shot up the last of it. I’ve switched to Swiss 3fg that I bought before Goex came back on the market.

Due to the local high humidity, after I make a shot, I close the frizzen to prevent a wet, gummy coating from forming in the frizzen pan. With the Goex, I’d oftentimes get a little powder in the frizzen pan when I rammed the ball. With the Swiss, I’ve noticed I get a lot of main charge powder migrating into the pan. Sometimes it’s completely full when I open the frizzen to add priming powder. I’m assuming that Swiss 3f is just a finer granulation than Goex, but is that normal? It doesn't seem to me that it should be.

I've never made any modifications to the vent hole. It's still as it was from the Kibler shop.

Do any of you notice that it happens to you, too?

rchas · Oct 29, 2024

I think a little main charge powder in the pan is a good sign, it means the flashhole channel is full and you're less likely to get a misfire.

A whole pan though is questionable. Any noticeable change in point of impact or group size on targets? If not, I don't think I would worry about it. If it bothers you, you could get a flashhole liner with a smaller hole.

Taevers · Oct 29, 2024

Terrier said:
I use 3fg powder in my Kibler SMR and get pretty good accuracy… I’ve been using Goex for the past 2 years that I’d bought in the early 90s, but I recently shot up the last of it. I’ve switched to Swiss 3fg that I bought before Goex came back on the market.

Due to the local high humidity, after I make a shot, I close the frizzen to prevent a wet, gummy coating from forming in the frizzen pan. With the Goex, I’d oftentimes get a little powder in the frizzen pan when I rammed the ball. With the Swiss, I’ve noticed I get a lot of main charge powder migrating into the pan. Sometimes it’s completely full when I open the frizzen to add priming powder. I’m assuming that Swiss 3f is just a finer granulation than Goex, but is that normal? It doesn't seem to me that it should be.

I've never made any modifications to the vent hole. It's still as it was from the Kibler shop.

Do any of you notice that it happens to you, too?

I noticed the same thing in my smr with 3f Swiss, though I opened up my touch hole a bit. I just use my touch hole pick to plug it up during loading during a target session. Swiss 3f is really fine but delivers good quality performance. I do think goex smoke smells better though!

SOLANCO · Oct 29, 2024

Do I infer there are no industry size standards for powder grades?

wiscoaster · Oct 29, 2024

I've tried both 2F and 3F in the pan and my experience is that it's a formula for about a 30% probability of a misfire.

akroguy · Oct 29, 2024

Taevers said:
I noticed the same thing in my smr with 3f Swiss, though I opened up my touch hole a bit. I just use my touch hole pick to plug it up during loading during a target session. Swiss 3f is really fine but delivers good quality performance. I do think goex smoke smells better though!

Swiss smells too much like cheese.

Taevers · Oct 29, 2024

akroguy said:
Swiss smells too much like cheese.

That was almost too sophisticated for me. It almost roofed me. Ain’t hard to do. Kina like tripping a midget. Nice one.

smo · Oct 29, 2024

Most places I shoot will scold you for loading with the pan closed….

Cock must be in the fired position and frizzen remains open at all times ..
Until you’re ready too prime and fire.

However, at home I have loaded with the frizzen closed and I do get powder in the pan..

I can feel powder hitting my bare leg when loading with the frizzen open while shooting in shorts.

But I’ve enlarged my touch hole for consistency of ignition..

My guns seem too function best with the pan 1/2 full of ffffg & fffg in the bore.

Southern humidity can be an issue, for those days I carry a small bottle of 91% alcohol and a rag..

I wipe the frizzen, pan and flint after every shot anyway..
But only use the alcohol when it’s needed.
It comes in handy if things get wet too.

Terrier · Oct 30, 2024

rchas said:
I think a little main charge powder in the pan is a good sign, it means the flashhole channel is full and you're less likely to get a misfire.

A whole pan though is questionable. Any noticeable change in point of impact or group size on targets? If not, I don't think I would worry about it. If it bothers you, you could get a flashhole liner with a smaller hole.

Well, I've only been shooting dinger and swinger targets and everything paper has been offhand in windy conditions since I switched to Swiss. I'll have to do some sandbagged target shooting and keep track of the amount of powder I find in the pan. Some of the time there's been none, sometimes a little, and sometimes a lot. I'll log it. Too breezy today and tomorrow for that type of testing, and rain due on Thursday. I'll try to work in a range session soon, tho...

I neglected to mention in the original post, by the SMR I’m having this issue with is a .40 cal.

smokepolehall · Oct 30, 2024

I push a pipe cleaner into my vent hole then load my charge. Stops Swiss 3F from easing out into my pan.

Mike in FL · Oct 30, 2024

I had that issue using 3F as main charge in my Kibler .54. When the kit arrived, I checked the flash hole because it appear d too small. I drilled it out to 1/16th. When the ball was rammed home the hole did leak into the pan. I went back to my drill bit and confirmed it was indeed 1/6. Gun not grouping well. I tried 2f and got much better groups and the flash hole no longer leaked. I have settled on 80 grains of 2F. Another rifle, a .50, likes 3F as the main charge and does not leak into the pan. Both flash holes were drilled to 1/16 USING THE SAME BIT. Makes no sense.

Loyalist Dave · Friday at 12:30 PM

Another vote for using the same powder for the main charge as in the pan. I "keep it simple". Works fine.

LD

Dutch7 · Friday at 12:59 PM

I had a touchhole liner that was shot out (read large) and accuracy at one match was poor, the guy next to me noticed powder in the snow where I loaded and that is what lead to the discovery. Used a toothpick the rest of the loading for that match and hit center again. Shortly after I changed that liner.
By accident in a recent hunt I forgot my 4F charger and used 3F to prime, didn’t draw as much moisture - I won’t shy from using it in humid or wet conditions in the future

Mike in FL · Friday at 8:40 PM

I don't have the sophisticated equipment to measure the difference if any of how long it takes 3F vs 4F in the pan to ignite the main charge. Using the same rifle and lock for each, I think a difference would be noted. This has been an ongoing question. It would be nice to have it answered.

Dutch7 · Friday at 10:22 PM

Mike in FL said:
I don't have the sophisticated equipment to measure the difference if any of how long it takes 3F vs 4F in the pan to ignite the main charge. Using the same rifle and lock for each, I think a difference would be noted. This has been an ongoing question. It would be nice to have it answered.

I don’t either Mike, it would be speculation on which is faster and I suspect it would not be easy to decide.

Greenjoytj · Saturday at 10:12 AM

You plug the flashhole to stop the flow of main charge powder into the pan.
Then prime with the correct amount of 4fg.
The correct amount is that which fires the gun without excessive flash.
Keeping the flash to a minimum is one of the keys to not developing a flash flinch.
I’ve seen video of the pan flash with different powder granulations and the finer granulation toss out of the pan fewer and shorter ranged still burning granules.
Use the minimum fine grained powder in the pan the will fire the gun.

beyu · Saturday at 10:08 PM

Slightly off the subject, but still related — I forgot to put powder in the pan before closing the frizzen and my musket fired anyway when I pulled the trigger. I realized right away that some of the powder from the main charge migrated though the vent into the pan.

That is one more VERY GOOD reason to make certain the hammer is not cocked when loading.

Mike in FL · Saturday at 10:42 PM

beyu said:
Slightly off the subject, but still related — I forgot to put powder in the pan before closing the frizzen and my musket fired anyway when I pulled the trigger. I realized right away that some of the powder from the main charge migrated though the vent into the pan.

That is one more VERY GOOD reason to make certain the hammer is not cocked when loading.

THAT, sir is a very good post, to remind us all to be careful. Once I determined that my main charge does NOT leak into the pan, I don't leave the frozen open when loading. But anyway, for those who do, be aware.

French Colonial · Sunday at 5:58 AM

So now what, I am supposed to shoot, close the frizzen, load the gun, open the frizzen, prime, close the frizzen again.

So while loading the gun it is magically going to go off?
Is this coming from the....there may be embers down there as well crowd. (OMG HE BLEW DOWN THE BARREL!!!!)
Some of you should stay home and pad the floor so you don't hurt yourself when you fall, also remove any sharp objects.

beyu · Sunday at 10:32 PM

French Colonial said:
So now what, I am supposed to shoot, close the frizzen, load the gun, open the frizzen, prime, close the frizzen again.

So while loading the gun it is magically going to go off?
Is this coming from the....there may be embers down there as well crowd. (OMG HE BLEW DOWN THE BARREL!!!!)
Some of you should stay home and pad the floor so you don't hurt yourself when you fall, also remove any sharp objects.

Nope. Not at all. But I do leave the frizzen open after firing, blow down the barrel to hasten the burning of any embers, watch the smoke come out of the vent and repeat until there is no more smoke. Then I reload and prime the pan, close the frizzen, cock the hammer and fire away.

My comment about the powder leaking into the pan was intended as a simple caution; namely, do not cock the hammer before reloading — because you might have powder in the pan even though you did not prime it.....

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