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Hard, brittle, and fast PRB for more damage?

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A patched round ball is what it is, fast or slow, you may change the composition of the lead, from soft to hard or hard to soft for more or less penetration, which I feel does not do as much as people feel it does, but ballistically you got what you got, it will never compare to a jacketed bullet designed projectile
 
I had been thinking of a way to get more damage and a faster kill with a PRB. You see this with modern bolt gun ammo... the more explosive the bullet, the more damage to vitals it does and thus a faster death for the game.

I realize we're talking apples and oranges here, but it's something I'd been pondering and wondered if anyone has tried it.

Perhaps using a slightly small ball (and thick patching ) of super hard lead alloy, maybe a smaller caliber like 45, and load it up to the fastest speed possible. I would think that maybe you could get a really hard and brittle ball to break/fragment at impact, causing more damage to vitals due to many more cuts in vital tissue.

Has anyone tried it, thought about it, or have it happen unintentionally?
I had been thinking of a way to get more damage and a faster kill with a PRB. You see this with modern bolt gun ammo... the more explosive the bullet, the more damage to vitals it does and thus a faster death for the game.

I realize we're talking apples and oranges here, but it's something I'd been pondering and wondered if anyone has tried it.

Perhaps using a slightly small ball (and thick patching ) of super hard lead alloy, maybe a smaller caliber like 45, and load it up to the fastest speed possible. I would think that maybe you could get a really hard and brittle ball to break/fragment at impact, causing more damage to vitals due to many more cuts in vital tissue.

Has anyone tried it, thought about it, or have it happen unintentionally?

Soft pure lead does the best job on most deer size game. This was a .495 pure lead ball loafing along about 1600 fps, One shoulder was soop/cat food. Approx 60 yds.
IMG_0586.jpeg
 
So if you use a "hard" alloy, you are going to likely blow a nice, clean hole right through your prey. Hard lead bullets = penetration. Soft lead bullets = deformation. You want hard lead bullets on very large, dangerous game, to reach the vitals, especially since it tends to be safer to shoot them farther away. However you trade deformation and an expanding wound channel for that penetration. On the other hand if you up the velocity quite high on pure lead, the deformation will happen faster than at a moderate impact speed, boosting friction and actually slowing down the projectile faster.

When you say "explosive" modern bullet, IF you mean it fragments then no that's not desired. IF you are taking hydrostatic shock, and the "explosive effects upon impact" that's a bit different. It's NOT from the bullet design. (Modern bullet designs want massive deformation but no fragmentation, to give the hunter the largest permanent wound cavity.) Hydrostatic results are from the random chance that the impact of the bullet at very high velocity coincides with the heart-beat of the animal. If the bullet impacts when the heart is at full contraction, you get the best chance at hydrostatic impact effect. And if not, then you lessen the chance. You're not going to get those velocities from black powder.

THAT is why the calibers are large and the bullets very heavy. You are relying on inertia at impact to overcome the friction of the animal's body.

If you're not getting a fast kill with the PRB, then you may be defeating yourself. I've had many more BANG-FLOP situations where the deer dropped in its tracks or dropped so fast that the animal was within 20 yards of where it was standing when hit. I've also had to track a lot of deer hit with modern ammo large distances.


Broadside there is the double lung shot, thus

View attachment 360039

Some go for the heart too with this, and aim lower, but I like to eat the heart, so I only go for lungs. The objective to be to hole both lungs and exit the opposite side, deflating the lungs in an instant and having a good blood trail if needed. I've only had to track one deer hit thus, and he was jazzed having just run over to the farm where I was because across the road they were having a fox-hunt. (Horns, and hounds, and mounted hunters, and what a racket!) So this is a good choice but..., sometimes adrenalin doesn't make it the best choice.

IF the deer quarters toward you, the shoulder shot has the best chance of dropping the animal where it stands.

View attachment 360040

This smashes bone in the shoulder and very often the ball deflects into the spine.

There are other shots of course for very competent marksmen, but with only one shot I prefer either of the above.

The only other possibility, is there have been instances where folks have tried to duplicate the velocity of the modern rifles, and that's not how this tech works. Very high impact velocities will cause massive ball deformation and the friction may actually prevent proper penetration due to the deformation.

Historically the folks that depended on flintlocks and caplocks for food, quite often only worked up an accurate load that "cracked" when fired, and stopped experimenting there. That crack meant the ball was going supersonic (they didn't know that, they just knew the results were better when the load made the ball "crack" going down range) So a patched round ball only doing 1100 fps is pretty much guaranteed not to be supersonic at impact. It seems counter-intuitive, but it does work.

LD
Excellent post, Dave.
 
A lot of us, probably most of us, are shooting our replica muzzleloaders at game because we want to live that part of history. Modern projectiles have no place within our efforts to immaculate those frontiersmen. The scoped inline hunters who are in it for the extra season have a completely opposite mindset. The market is full of bullets they like and use. I guess it is just a case of who you are and what you like. Me, I like to be as close as practically possible to the 18th Century.
 
A lot of us, probably most of us, are shooting our replica muzzleloaders at game because we want to live that part of history. Modern projectiles have no place within our efforts to emulate those frontiersmen. The scoped inline hunters who are in it for the extra season have a completely opposite mindset. The market is full of bullets they like and use. I guess it is just a case of who you are and what you like. Me, I like to be as close as practically possible to the 18th Century.
You said exactly what was on my mind. Trying to make a traditional ml rifle more like a modern rifle makes no sense at all. Putting a hood ornament on a mule won't make it go 0 to 60 in five seconds either. So why try?
 
What is your goal? In general, slower speed means more penetration, less projectile deformation inside the animal, and a smaller wound channel, But you might be more likely to get an exit. Higher speed is just the opposite, except then you can extend your range out further. Since you're not shooting over 50 yd, you can probably get away with a pretty slow ball
How slow is pretty slow, I'm at 1700 fast now?
 
How slow is pretty slow, I'm at 1700 fast now?

That I do not know. I've yet to shoot any game with my flintlock and have only been in the muzzleloader game for a couple years. My knowledge only extends to some principles of terminal ballistics where new and old intersect.
 
Please educate me. Why are you using linotype for your bullets? There are cheaper ways to make your bullets harder.
It make beautiful bullets and doesn't lead up the barrel even at 2000 fps. During Clinton's anti gun administration I stocked up on supplies and bought a half ton of the stuff for 50 cents a pound, been shooting off that supply for 30+ years and still have enough for the rest of my life.
 
I don't have a lot of money so just my two cents (and I realize it's contrary to the OP ?). Maxis carry more energy at longer distances and most deer never leave their tracks. No need for a long discussion.
 

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