Newbie Looking for Advice on Failed Ignition of Main Charge

Newbert · Nov 8, 2024

Hello all. I am brand new to flintlocks and after much research and planning I took my Rifle, A Traditions Hawken .50 cal woodsman flintlock, out to the range with no success.

The black powder successfully ignited on the pan 100% of the time but No matter how much I attempted reloading the pan. I could never get the powder to fire. this has led me in the position of now having to wait for a bullet puller to come in the mail to get the thing out.

there are a number of factors that could be contributing to this issue and I don't wish to waste anyone's time. so I will try and be as succinct and thorough as possible.

1. while I would have considered the touch hole to be cleared before heading out I did not bring any wire or suitable implement to actually insert into the hole so it may have ended up clogged by the initial firing attempt.

2. Deleted by Moderator.

3. Try as I might, The ball was NOT properly seated, I only discovered this poking around with a cleaning rod and realizing with the handle's leverage I could still go deeper...

I really dont have any practical experience, I would love to hear anyone's perspective or advice. I have a lot of ideas where to go but I'm not looking to Elmer Fudd myself.

Thank you for reading!

Eterry · Nov 9, 2024

First some housekeeping. Per our rules we Do Not Discuss the Making or using of DIY Black Powder. PERIOD. Just a warning for a new member but it will get your account deleted if repeated.

I am fairly new to flintlocks, about 6 years vs 44 years with caplocks. But I know if I don't prick my charge with my vent pick after loading there's a good chance it won't go bang. The load needs a place for the flash charge to land in the chamber, I would imagine especially with home made powder.

My advice is to make a vent pick; mine is a piece of baling wire I heated and hammered the end in a vice.
Get some factory made real black powder, substitutes won't work for this. You can try picking a few grains of what you're using for main charge out of the chamber thru the vent, then try to force a few grains of the real stuff back in. You don't need much holy black to ignite the remainder.
Mark your ramrod with a marker where bottom is, then where your loaded round is, this way you know when you're fully seated.
Does your rifle have a vent liner? If you can unscrew the liner you're golden. Unscrew it, scrape out the offending powder, replace with store made. Again, lyou only need a small amount as a primary charge to ignite the rest.
Did you moisten or lube the patch before loading it? Did you swab the bore of the rifle after you got it? There could be a glob of packing grease that is causing problems?

if you swabbed the barrel I'd try getting a few grains of store bought fffg in your barrel before pulling the ball.
I'm sure others will have more advice, but first we need answers to our questions to help diagnose your situation.

Eterry · Nov 9, 2024

And to all: we are DONE discussing any powder Not Sold from Distributors. Let's move past this aspect of the problem.

wiscoaster · Nov 9, 2024

Newbert said:
.....

3. Try as I might, The ball was NOT properly seated, .....

Sometimes it's a surprise how much force it takes to seat a ball, especially if maybe your patch was a little too thick. This is why it's important to know how deep the ramrod goes and to make that your last check after ramming. I make a mark on the ramrod. Also listen. When ball and charge are properly seated, the ramrod will make a clunking sound. And many people like to give it one last bounce. If it bounces, your ball and charge are seated all the way in.

stubshaft · Nov 9, 2024

Rather than make or buy a vent pick use a paperclip and make sure the touchhole is clear prior to priming.

Use a good patch lube, Mink oil, Mr. Flintlock etc. It will reduce friction and allow you to feel the ball when it contacts the powder. Try to keep the seating pressure consistent!

rich pierce · Nov 9, 2024

If the ball is fully seated, when you insert a vent pick, you can feel the crunchy packed powder charge.

If never flintlocks you’d do well to find an experienced shooter to accompany you to the range. Much better than forum guesses about what’s the issue(s).

Newbert · Nov 9, 2024

Eterry said:
First some housekeeping. Per our rules we Do Not Discuss the Making or using of DIY Black Powder. PERIOD. Just a warning for a new member but it will get your account deleted if repeated.

I am fairly new to flintlocks, about 6 years vs 44 years with caplocks. But I know if I don't prick my charge with my vent pick after loading there's a good chance it won't go bang. The load needs a place for the flash charge to land in the chamber, I would imagine especially with home made powder.

My advice is to make a vent pick; mine is a piece of baling wire I heated and hammered the end in a vice.
Get some factory made real black powder, substitutes won't work for this. You can try picking a few grains of what you're using for main charge out of the chamber thru the vent, then try to force a few grains of the real stuff back in. You don't need much holy black to ignite the remainder.
Mark your ramrod with a marker where bottom is, then where your loaded round is, this way you know when you're fully seated.
Does your rifle have a vent liner? If you can unscrew the liner you're golden. Unscrew it, scrape out the offending powder, replace with store made. Again, you only need a small amount as a primary charge to ignite the rest.
Did you moisten or lube the patch before loading it? Did you swab the bore of the rifle after you got it? There could be a glob of packing grease that is causing problems?

if you swabbed the barrel I'd try getting a few grains of store bought fffg in your barrel before pulling the ball.
I'm sure others will have more advice, but first we need answers to our questions to help diagnose your situation.

Thank you for the warning. I will be sure not to discuss that topic further.

To answer your questions: Yes there is a touch hole liner which I am able to remove.

The patch was a store bought "Wonderlube" patch so no issues there (I think)

I did not swab the barrel with anything since getting it new from the factory.

You're suggesting it's possible to prime the shot from behind? I had not considered that, a good deal of the BP has been blown out by poor attempts at using compressed air to push the ball out. I'm unsure if there's a proper load in there anymore. Sort of Schrödinger's charge. Unless its possible to gently coax enough in there to actually push the ball out. I've seen it done on nipple models but they seem a different beast.

Is there a risk to ball pulling? I have ordered the tool bit online but haven't got it yet.

Newbert · Nov 9, 2024

rich pierce said:
If the ball is fully seated, when you insert a vent pick, you can feel the crunchy packed powder charge.

If never flintlocks you’d do well to find an experienced shooter to accompany you to the range. Much better than forum guesses about what’s the issue(s).

Solid advice, there is a BP club in my city, perhaps I should go to one of their meetups and discuss with them as well

wiscoaster · Nov 9, 2024

rich pierce said:
.....

If never flintlocks you’d do well to find an experienced shooter to accompany you to the range. Much better than forum guesses about what’s the issue(s).

That's good advice. Might be difficult in some individual cases, though. EG in my case, I'm usually pretty much by myself in shooting flintlocks around here. Most of what I've learned has been learned either from more experienced members' advices posted here, or from my own experiences actually shooting.

Eterry · Nov 9, 2024

Newbert said:
Thank you for the warning. I will be sure not to discuss that topic further.

To answer your questions: Yes there is a touch hole liner which I am able to remove.

The patch was a store bought "Wonderlube" patch so no issues there (I think)

I did not swab the barrel with anything since getting it new from the factory.

You're suggesting it's possible to prime the shot from behind? I had not considered that, a good deal of the BP has been blown out by poor attempts at using compressed air to push the ball out. I'm unsure if there's a proper load in there anymore. Sort of Schrödinger's charge. Unless its possible to gently coax enough in there to actually push the ball out. I've seen it done on nipple models but they seem a different beast.

Is there a risk to ball pulling? I have ordered the tool bit online but haven't got it yet.

The first thing done wrong was not cleaning the bore after buying it. All new muzzleloaders, especially those made overseas, have plenty of greasy goo in the barrel to make the ocean trip to here. So you'll definitely need to swab it good with a solvent or dawn once it is cleared.

Pulling the ball, imho, is usually more difficult than expected. Often ends with a trip to a gunsmith to pull the breech plug.

Unscrew the vent liner and get some of that manure out of the chamber. Then buy some black powder, fffg will do nicely, and put some in there, (no more than 80grs, but 20grs will work). Insert liner, seat ball on the powder, and use a fireworks fuse if need be. Just want that greasy non standard mess out of there.

I've "charged from behind" many times when I first got into this, and for the same reasons as you. I've pulled the nipple, trickled, crammed powder in as much as possible, replaced the nipple, trickled more into the nipple, then prayed for bang. It always worked.
Btw, most throw those store bought patches away; get some pillow ticking from the fabric shop. I use spit lube, which is to say I precut patches, put a few in my cheek like tobacco, and suck out the excess before loading. Been doing this since 1980. There are 1000s of lubes out there, but the prelude patches are mostly trash. You don't need a super tight fit nless shooting competition.
Keep us posted.

Eterry · Nov 9, 2024

Newbert said:
Thank you for the warning. I will be sure not to discuss that topic further.

To answer your questions: Yes there is a touch hole liner which I am able to remove.

The patch was a store bought "Wonderlube" patch so no issues there (I think)

I did not swab the barrel with anything since getting it new from the factory.

You're suggesting it's possible to prime the shot from behind? I had not considered that, a good deal of the BP has been blown out by poor attempts at using compressed air to push the ball out. I'm unsure if there's a proper load in there anymore. Sort of Schrödinger's charge. Unless its possible to gently coax enough in there to actually push the ball out. I've seen it done on nipple models but they seem a different beast.

Is there a risk to ball pulling? I have ordered the tool bit online but haven't got it yet.

I've never seen Schrödinger's theory used here before. I'm impressed.

wiscoaster · Nov 9, 2024

Eterry said:
The first thing done wrong was not cleaning the bore after buying it. .....

Ditto. Double ditto. And it's usually more than just factory goo in the bore, it's metal dust from maching the bore and cutting the rifling. After cleaning out that gook and metal detritus, I like to polish as well. To get rid of those machining marks that simple cleaning doesn't touch.

wiscoaster · Nov 9, 2024

Eterry said:
I've never seen Schrödinger's theory used here before. I'm impressed.

Oh, my, quantum mechanics in a black powder muzzleloading forum. I'm lost. Or I'm found. Or am I in the same place at the same time? Depends on whether you look for me. Or whether you don't. Or maybe I've just been there and am now gone. I only know that the cat survived. And is now gone. Out hunting for mice. Who know nothing of quantum mechanics. Hah. Good for the cat.

bpd303 · Nov 9, 2024

Welcome to the forum, a bunch of really helpful folks here. Some of us qualify as curmudgeons.

My thought is are you sure you loaded powder? I have dry balled without realizing it and I've been shooting muzzle loaders for over 70 years. Putting powder in with the vent liner removed should get enough in to expel the ball with some force so replace the vent liner, prime & shoot it, make sure to keep the muzzle in a safe direction. I've done that in my garage, shot into a cardboard box filled with old t-shirts as a backstop.

Newbert · Nov 9, 2024

bpd303 said:
My thought is are you sure you loaded powder? I have dry balled without realizing it and I've been shooting muzzle loaders for over 70 years. Putting powder in with the vent liner removed should get enough in to expel the ball with some force so replace the vent liner, prime & shoot it, make sure to keep the muzzle in a safe direction. I've done that in my garage, shot into a cardboard box filled with old t-shirts as a backstop.

I definitely did but the powder was subpar. It was my very first time shooting and so I drilled it in my head "Powder patch and ball or nothing at all"

Yes I had an idea now to use the touch hole with the liner removed to slowly trickle feed in some powder, replace the liner and reassemble (cant remove liner without removing barrel) and fire.

I had an idea to do this more safely and consistently by using a narrow fuse, is this foolish? It seems to me a way to guarantee ignition.

bpd303 · Nov 9, 2024

Not foolish at all, I usually use fuse when proof testing barrels that I have restored.

Flintlock Ron07 · Nov 10, 2024

One time when I couldn’t get ignition through the touch hole liner, I just pulled the liner out and shot it. It made a huge flash but it got the ball out no problem. Good luck

Eterry · Nov 10, 2024

Newbert said:
I definitely did but the powder was subpar. It was my very first time shooting and so I drilled it in my head "Powder patch and ball or nothing at all"

Yes I had an idea now to use the touch hole with the liner removed to slowly trickle feed in some powder, replace the liner and reassemble (cant remove liner without removing barrel) and fire.

I had an idea to do this more safely and consistently by using a narrow fuse, is this foolish? It seems to me a way to guarantee ignition.

It's not foolish is it works! And there's no reason why it shouldn't work. That's why I suggested the fuse.

Newbert · Nov 10, 2024

Eterry said:
It's not foolish is it works! And there's no reason why it shouldn't work. That's why I suggested the fuse.

Ah I didn't see you had suggested that earlier when discussing the grease. Alright sounds like a plan then

flconch53 · Nov 10, 2024

Newbert said:
I definitely did but the powder was subpar. It was my very first time shooting and so I drilled it in my head "Powder patch and ball or nothing at all"

Yes I had an idea now to use the touch hole with the liner removed to slowly trickle feed in some powder, replace the liner and reassemble (cant remove liner without removing barrel) and fire.

I had an idea to do this more safely and consistently by using a narrow fuse, is this foolish? It seems to me a way to guarantee ignition.

I have to disagree with ETERRY . Pulling a ball is no big deal if you have a decent range rod and puller. I have pulled at least 100 over the years when helping people at the range. My other question is why can't you just remove the lock to get the liner out.

Newbie Looking for Advice on Failed Ignition of Main Charge

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

32 Cal

75 Cal.

75 Cal.

75 Cal.

40 Cal.

70 Cal.

32 Cal

32 Cal

75 Cal.

75 Cal.

75 Cal.

75 Cal.

75 Cal.

Nearly Normal

32 Cal

Nearly Normal

32 Cal

75 Cal.

32 Cal

50 Cal.

Similar threads

Join the conversation!

Join today and get all the highlights of this community direct to your inbox. It's FREE!