Bucks County Transitional rifle

kswan · Jun 26, 2019

I'm doing some research on Andrew Verner rifles for my next build. I came across what was called a Bucks county Transitional rifle. Is there actually evidence of such a rifle? As well, I've been looking at a few contemporary Verner rifles with sliding patch boxes, wouldn't those rifles be a bit late for that?

Thanks

dave_person · Jun 26, 2019

Hi,
What was the source of that "Bucks County transitional rifle"?

dave

kswan · Jun 26, 2019

dave_person said:
Hi,
What was the source of that "Bucks County transitional rifle"?

dave

I ran across it on Allen Martin Rifles web page. Nice looking rifle.

rich pierce · Jun 26, 2019

William Antes was an early builder whose rifles carried hallmarks of later Bucks County rifles. 2 unknown builders (because the rifles were unsigned) also built rifles which probably date to the Revolutionary War period that carry Bucks County characteristics.

Recently a nice early unsigned Bucks County gun came up for sale but I could not swing it. It was fantastic. Pictures above b

Brokennock · Jun 26, 2019

Mr. Pierce, can we please get some more details on that rifle? Maybe in another thread?
Thank you for sharing the pictures.

dave_person · Jun 27, 2019

Hi Rich,
Very nice gun! The lock looks like a modern replacement? Perhaps, originally, it had a heavier Germanic lock?

dave

Kyle smith · Jun 27, 2019

Personally I doubt have any input, I'm more of a fan of the mountain style rifles, but of all the penn. Style rifles and schools from that area I love verner style rifles. I built one all this winter and I love it. The use of carvings and wire to decorate and highlight areas such as finials. Sleek profile especially through the wrist yet none of the curved combs. Of I believe later period Leigh vally rifles. And who can't like side opening patch boxes. Especially when the builder in his tremdous skill engraved his name in flowing script so no one could debate the builder hundreds of years later

rich pierce · Jun 27, 2019

That’s an early Bucks County styled smooth rifle or fowler which looks in the style of Verner or Shuler but seems an earlier style with fancy imported furniture. It’s stock shape and incised carving fit very well into the well developed Bucks County style. I’m thinking of replicating it. Need to get a guard modeled up and cast. I’d guess the lock is a replacement. It’s a 1740s style lock by my guess. Cool lock but too early to fit this gun. Given the use of special mounts I doubt the builder would use an old lock like that. So an in use replacement or part of a restoration is my guess

Zonie · Jun 27, 2019

rich pierce said:
View attachment 11384 View attachment 11385 View attachment 11386 View attachment 11387 View attachment 11388 View attachment 11389 View attachment 11390 View attachment 11391 View attachment 11392 William Antes was an early builder whose rifles carried hallmarks of later Bucks County rifles. 2 unknown builders (because the rifles were unsigned) also built rifles which probably date to the Revolutionary War period that carry Bucks County characteristics.

Recently a nice early unsigned Bucks County gun came up for sale but I could not swing it. It was fantastic. Pictures above b

That's a very interesting rifle but do you think it really qualifies as a "Transitional" era gun?

When I think of a transitional gun I think of very early ones. The very early longrifles I've seen pictures of almost always have a trigger guard who's aft rail stands well off of the bottom of the wrist. In fact, I don't recall seeing trigger guards that look like that one until late in the flintlock era.

rich pierce · Jun 27, 2019

Zonie, “transitional” is a phrase I won’t use and I’m not using it here. I’m posting this as an early Bucks County-styled gun, possibly/likely a decade preceding the best known Bucks County smooth rifles. I’m not sure what Allen Martin meant or the details of his build, but I am sure it was a stunner.

There is an early, side-opening patchbox smooth rifle called the “Deschler rifle” after the name of the family it passed down through. That one fits what many consider “transitional”, but whether it contributes to the development of the later 1790-1810 Bucks County style is not clear. The lines between “Lehigh” and “Bucks County” guns are somewhat blurred.

rich pierce · Jun 27, 2019

dave_person said:
Hi,
What was the source of that "Bucks County transitional rifle"?

dave

The rifle AM made is based on an original smooth rifle that Geo. Shumway highlighted in a Muzzle Blasts article named “A Case of Lehigh Valley Longrifle Evolution” in July 1996. There are later Bucks County-attributed rifles that share carving signatures found on that early rifle

Captjoel · Jun 28, 2019

I really LIKE (love may be too strong a word for inanimate objects but

) Bucks County longrifles, and Rich, your fine example has me drooling on my keyboard!

There sure is a lot of French influence in that piece and there is also on that particular "school" as well.

I have studied Bucks County guns quite a bit especially after having the opportunity to actually view the famous A Verner rifle up close. A true masterpiece!

A little over a year ago, I bought a fine contemporary made B\C rifle built by the late Stewart Johnstone, from Michigan. I really liked what I saw when I bought it but until I took it home and shot it, realized I didn't really know much about B\C rifles! Not only did that piece shoulder and come to my sight picture like an extension of my own body, there was no cheek slapping wallop that I have experienced with Lehigh Valley guns.

Then! When I took the piece into the shop for cleaning I learned that Stew had built this rifle following the actual example's of several Verner\Shuler works. The 42" slightly swamped barrel has a hooked breech and comes away from the stock with the simple ease of sliding the captured barrel keys, removing the ramrod and bingo!

Col. Batguano · Jun 28, 2019

Yeah that's true, but don't you have to loosen the lock bolts to get the barrel out too?

I've often thought that the cheek stars we commonly see on Lehighs and Bucks (as well as a few others) were vaguely reminiscent of the European alpine Eidelweiss flowers, which of course are largely German - Austrian.

kswan · Jul 1, 2019

Thanks very much for the input folks.

Vaino · Jul 7, 2019

I'm wondering why some state that there's a tie in between the BC and Lehigh LRs.....some of the BC makers might have lived in or next to Lehigh areas, but their LRs don't display Lehigh features.....anyways the BCs I've seen.

The cheek star is common to both styles.

I think that Rich is correct in refraining from calling the shown LR as "transitional". The question can be asked...."transition from what?

The pictured BC LR has a few BC features.....the buttstock profile and incised carving w/ fleur de lis "beavertails". Not much else of the LR displays BC features.

One can only surmise that this LR is an early version of a BC LR. If the builder chose to use a non-BC bplate and TG, possibly because that's what he had on hand, he perhaps just wanted to build a "different" style of BC and this might be correct seeing most of the later BC features are missing due to either having not been "invented" yet or he chose not to use them.

A lot of questions arise about this LR......Fred

Treestalker · Jul 7, 2019

Why, that Bucks county transitional rifle is as handsome as a Jefferson Peace Medallion! Looking at either makes me proud to be an American.

James Strait · Sunday at 8:46 AM

Hello to all,

Does anyone have location specific information as to where in Bucks County Andrew Verner may have plied his trade, if he did at all?

dave_person · Monday at 9:27 AM

Hi,
According to George Shumay, Verner moved around between Marlborough, Upper Hanover Twp. and Richland Twp. All communities that are near Quakerstown, PA.

dave

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