54 Cal buffalo hunt accuracy issues

I am going to South Dakota in a couple of weeks to hunt a buffalo. I have two 54 cal muzzleloaders to use. One is a golden age classic from TWO and one is a TC Hawkin in 54 cal. I am loading with 90 gr of goex 3 f powder and a 530 round ball with a .014 pt patch. I can hit a two-inch circle with them if a have 50 0r 60 gr 3 f powder. I think I need to be loading with at least 90 gr powder to get a load that will kill. I have told the outfitter I need to be within 50 yds. I cannot get groups to be within 8 inch circle. I am using bear grease for a lube and that solved my issue a couple of years ago with cold weather accuracy, I am 75 years old so i have a tripod to steady the rifle but i have my hand under the barrel resting on the tripod. I am looking for any suggestions you may have to get a better group. I have been told that i need to take a lung shot, Thanks for your help or your experience. Ike

I think you would be better off shooting them right behind the ear. Just penetrating a winter coat and the thick hide is a chore for a round ball.
Increasing the load to around 120 gr. 2F may work better for you for the accuracy problem.

Drop down 5 grains and try. 3f might not be what they like.

I think trying 2f is a good idea. Also you can try a over powder wad.

Honestly you probably should be shooting a conical.

Any discussion of accuracy with a patched round ball starts with how the patches look after you shoot them. They should look like you could reuse them. I like to cut a strip of patching, maybe 12-15 inches long, start it down the barrel about 4-5 inches and pull it back out. Then look at the patching and see if the lands are cutting the patch at the muzzle. If they are, this needs to be fixed.

Assuming the patches are not being cut but still look burned then you need something to protect them from the heat of larger powder charges.

Put a tarp 15 or so steps from the muzzle to catch the patches. Then, you can try different diameter balls, lubes, thicknesses of patches, thinner double patches, adding a wad, wasp nesting, wadded up patch or whatever between the powder charge and patched ball.

Once you find the correct patch/ball/lube combo and you have a good barrel and decent form you should be able to keep your shots inside of an inch and a half at 50 yards.

I would think a 54 ball would kill just fine with 60-70gr loads. Especially if within 50 yards.

Shoot the heaviest load that you can shoot accurately. Buffalo bulls have a very tough hide and they can walk a long way when wounded. the rifle with the longer barrel may give you more velocity, all other things being equal. I used 140 grains of 2FF in my .58.

I would try a maxi ball in the t/c

remember the heart on a buffalo is very low down in the chest, I think I would use a 120gr load.

ike said:

I am loading with 90 gr of goex 3 f powder and a 530 round ball with a .014 pt patch. I can hit a two-inch circle with them if a have 50 0r 60 gr 3 f powder. I think I need to be loading with at least 90 gr powder to get a load that will kill. I have told the outfitter I need to be within 50 yds. I cannot get groups to be within 8 inch circle.

Click to expand...

Ike, if I am understanding what you are saying, you have good accuracy at 50 yards with a roundball using a .014” thick patch over 50 or 60 grains of 3F powder, but with a 90 grain charge you can’t hit an 8” circle. Is this correct? If so, the first thing I would look at is your patch material and its thickness. Personally I have found with the correct patch and lube, most 54 caliber guns with 1-48 to 1-60 rifling will shoot well out to 100 yards with powder charges up to and over 100 grains.

ike said:

I am 75 years old so i have a tripod to steady the rifle but i have my hand under the barrel resting on the tripod. I am looking for any suggestions you may have to get a better group. I have been told that i need to take a lung shot

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Ike, I am only a few years younger than you and I don’t buy the age excuse unless you have some physical handicaps, you should be able to shoot accurately beyond 50 yards with a stout hunting load. Just an opinion based on what you have shared with us.

As far as taking a lung shot, what does your outfitter/guide suggest? And have they taken traditional muzzleloader hunters using roundballs out before that have been successful?

ike said:

I am going to South Dakota in a couple of weeks to hunt a buffalo. I have two 54 cal muzzleloaders to use. One is a golden age classic from TWO and one is a TC Hawkin in 54 cal. I am loading with 90 gr of goex 3 f powder and a 530 round ball with a .014 pt patch. I can hit a two-inch circle with them if a have 50 0r 60 gr 3 f powder. I think I need to be loading with at least 90 gr powder to get a load that will kill. I have told the outfitter I need to be within 50 yds. I cannot get groups to be within 8 inch circle. I am using bear grease for a lube and that solved my issue a couple of years ago with cold weather accuracy, I am 75 years old so i have a tripod to steady the rifle but i have my hand under the barrel resting on the tripod. I am looking for any suggestions you may have to get a better group. I have been told that i need to take a lung shot, Thanks for your help or your experience. Ike

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I nearly put a bid on it. Uk

Full Details for Lot 402​

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FINE MODERN & ANTIQUE ARMS - DECEMBER 2024 : SALE A1224 LOT 402
A .577 FLINTLOCK HEAVY-BARRELLED BUFFALO RIFLE FOR RESTORATION, UNSIGNED, no visible serial number,

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PRODUCT DETAILS
A .577 FLINTLOCK HEAVY-BARRELLED BUFFALO RIFLE FOR RESTORATION, UNSIGNED, no visible serial number,
English produced for the American market circa 1830, Birmingham proved 33 3/4in. heavy octagonal barrel 1 9/16in. across the flats, multigroove rifling, later dove-tailed brass fore-sight, no provision for rear-sight, remodelled squared breech, borderline and scroll engraved top-tang fitted with a folding peep-sight, provision for a clipped tail bar-action lock (absent), stripy maple half-stock chequered at the wrist and with large rectangular iron patch-box, trigger-guard bow with scrolled raised lower tang, single set-trigger, twin barrel keys, applied under-rib (lifting) with two plain ramrod thimbles and replacement ramrod



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Estimate £300-500





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Church Farm Barns
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nchawkeye said:

Any discussion of accuracy with a patched round ball starts with how the patches look after you shoot them. They should look like you could reuse them. I like to cut a strip of patching, maybe 12-15 inches long, start it down the barrel about 4-5 inches and pull it back out. Then look at the patching and see if the lands are cutting the patch at the muzzle. If they are, this needs to be fixed.

Assuming the patches are not being cut but still look burned then you need something to protect them from the heat of larger powder charges.

Put a tarp 15 or so steps from the muzzle to catch the patches. Then, you can try different diameter balls, lubes, thicknesses of patches, thinner double patches, adding a wad, wasp nesting, wadded up patch or whatever between the powder charge and patched ball.

Once you find the correct patch/ball/lube combo and you have a good barrel and decent form you should be able to keep your shots inside of an inch and a half at 50 yards.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately TC'S barrels are rifled for a maxi ball. When you are raising the powder charge with a PRB chances are it is skipping on the rifling. After years of 5 shot groups with 4 in the bull and one in the 5 ring I figured this out.

Gordoncourtney said:

I nearly put a bid on it. Uk

Full Details for Lot 402​

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FINE MODERN & ANTIQUE ARMS - DECEMBER 2024 : SALE A1224 LOT 402
A .577 FLINTLOCK HEAVY-BARRELLED BUFFALO RIFLE FOR RESTORATION, UNSIGNED, no visible serial number,

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Bid Now
Enquiry


PRODUCT DETAILS
A .577 FLINTLOCK HEAVY-BARRELLED BUFFALO RIFLE FOR RESTORATION, UNSIGNED, no visible serial number,
English produced for the American market circa 1830, Birmingham proved 33 3/4in. heavy octagonal barrel 1 9/16in. across the flats, multigroove rifling, later dove-tailed brass fore-sight, no provision for rear-sight, remodelled squared breech, borderline and scroll engraved top-tang fitted with a folding peep-sight, provision for a clipped tail bar-action lock (absent), stripy maple half-stock chequered at the wrist and with large rectangular iron patch-box, trigger-guard bow with scrolled raised lower tang, single set-trigger, twin barrel keys, applied under-rib (lifting) with two plain ramrod thimbles and replacement ramrod



Please click HERE to view Terms & Conditions. Please note all Lots are listed in accordance with UK Law, for overseas buyers, please ensure you are familiar with your relevant local firearms and customs regulations before bidding.

Estimate £300-500





PREV LOT
NEXT LOT
TOTAL PRICE CALCULATOR
WHAT IS YOUR SPENDING LIMIT?

HOLTS​

Church Farm Barns​

Wolferton​

Norfolk, PE31 6HA​

England​

Phone: +44 (0) 1485 542 822​

​

Email:[email protected]​

Privacy Policy​

© Copyright 2024 HOLTS Auctioneers. All Rights Reserved

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Dandy rifle, I wonder how hard it would be to find a bar lock that would fit the inlet? The seller probably has it in a shoe box on a closet shelf somewhere.

waksupi said:

Dandy rifle, I wonder how hard it would be to find a bar lock that would fit the inlet? The seller probably has it in a shoe box on a closet shelf somewhere.

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Think about the weight of that barrel , I bid £440 then cancelled it . I have some original Bess locks that might fit . I buy too much crap anyway to do up , But decent guns are always £800 plus. It’s too far away to view some 200 miles

ike said:

. I have two 54 cal muzzleloaders to use. One is a golden age classic from TWO and one is a TC Hawkin in 54 cal. I am loading with 90 gr of goex 3 f powder and a 530 round ball with a .014 pt patch. I can hit a two-inch circle with them if a have 50 0r 60 gr 3 f powder. I think I need to be loading with at least 90 gr powder to get a load that will kill. I have told the outfitter I need to be within 50 yds.

Click to expand...

Are you having this accuracy problem with both rifles? I'm thinking your patch is too thin. Try .018 and .020 with your 530 balls. Read those fired patches. They should be in good condition. If not its barrel and crown conditioning time.

It was mentioned above to use a bullet. If time is a factor, a Maxi or other suitable bullet over 90 to 100 grains of powder will probably be adequate in the accuracy department.

ike said:

I am going to South Dakota in a couple of weeks to hunt a buffalo. I have two 54 cal muzzleloaders to use. One is a golden age classic from TWO and one is a TC Hawkin in 54 cal. I am loading with 90 gr of goex 3 f powder and a 530 round ball with a .014 pt patch. I can hit a two-inch circle with them if a have 50 0r 60 gr 3 f powder. I think I need to be loading with at least 90 gr powder to get a load that will kill. I have told the outfitter I need to be within 50 yds. I cannot get groups to be within 8 inch circle. I am using bear grease for a lube and that solved my issue a couple of years ago with cold weather accuracy, I am 75 years old so i have a tripod to steady the rifle but i have my hand under the barrel resting on the tripod. I am looking for any suggestions you may have to get a better group. I have been told that i need to take a lung shot, Thanks for your help or your experience. Ike

Click to expand...

I have found that with .54 cal. M.L.s 80 grains of powder was most accurate when I shot .530 balls? It may change with certain twist barrels. The reason I mention this is I once shot a deer using 60 grains of powder and it penetrated more than my 30 06 using Remington core lock bullets on the same shot? If 90 grains is accurate enough by all means use it but I don't think you need that much powder to take a Bison?

Not sure what you are shooting . I assume it is a 230gr PRB? not 530gr? If you use a PRB you need to harden it some. Possibly 30/1 lead to tin ratio. You WILL be disappointed if you try shooting heavy loads and a pure lead ball at a buff. I shot one with BP cartridge rifle, but watched dozens others shot with various guns. Even with a slug of some 400+ grains you may not get an exit. Try several good plain (flat based, not hollow based) slugs and use what shoots best. Shoot for the lungs. They may stay on their feet but it will do the job. Not likely you will be able to break the neck on a buff with a PRB. Had one hunter/friend who could not do it with a ,270 and 150gr bullets. We found them fully mushroomed in tissue next to the spine w/o breaking the neck....4 shots! Lung shot finally took effect. Watched one guy shoot a big bull w/ .30-06 180 gr factory ammo....perfect shot dropped the animal in a few seconds with one shot. We found the bullet ....half-way through the heart! No such thing as too much penetration on these critters.

I killed one several years ago with a Hatfield .54 using 80 grains of 3F at about 50 yards. I was hunting in Nebraska in the winter. It was a pretty easy hunt just a bit of crawling to get within range. I saw the ball hit just a little low right behind the right shoulder, the dang critter didn't act as if were even hit it kept walking along started to wobble, and fell over after about 30 yards. the ball had penetrated both lungs

On Oct. 31st my older son and I used our 1819 Hall rifles on buffalo. His is a S. North contract rifle from 1831, Federal conversion to percussion sometime pre- Civil War. , mine is a J. Hall Harpers Ferry rifle from 1837. They both worked fine with the original load of 75 grains of 2f and a .524 pure lead ball.
We use a "buffalo decoy" that you can see in the background of the first pic. Otherwise it's nigh impossible to get close enough to select an older cull cow. Anyways, mine was 110 long paces away when I shot( kneeling, resting on the back of the decoy) held right behind her "elbow" and squeezed off the shot. the flintlock Hall is somewhat akin to Mount Vesuvius erupting right in your line of sight, but ignition is very fast. The ball ripped through both lungs and punched a big hole through the top of her heart, clipped the far side shoulder bone, and was against the hide on the far side. She took a couple jumps, staggered maybe 20 yards, and layed down pretty much as she is in the picture.
Zac was able to get a bit closer as his cow stayed next to the one I shot, but there were also 5 younger bulls crowded around her. He went down along side the coulee, and got to within 80 yards of them. One of the bulls started advancing toward him, but then then the big old cow stepped into the clear. She turned sideways and he fired. The ball hit behind her shoulder, she staggered and she ambled down the side of the coulee. She stopped head down and bleeding at about 120 yards. He had reloaded by then and shot her again as she was quartering away. That ball went in behind the last rib on her right side and was pasted against the hide low in her neck. It plopped out when we were skinning her. It didn't hit any bone, but did angle through the lungs.
The first shot killed her, and that ball exited, going through both lungs and some big arteries.
Last year I used an original 1817 US Common rifle, with the same ball, ( but patched) and same 75 grains of 2 f. That cow was closer and I plumb centered her heart, she only took a couple jumps and collapsed.
Bottom line , get close, aim carefully, shoot the load that shoots the best in your rifle. I believe that too much velocity will severely limit your penetration with a round ball, and yes- if you're going to go for more velocity, consider a harder alloy.. maybe 20-1 or so.
Bigger is better when it comes to round balls and really big game, but shot placement is most important.
Oh, and though the ball recovered from my buffalo is deformed and flattened, it still weighs 215 grains. Zac's is just shy of 219 grains- exactly as it was cast. I like the imprints of the sixteen groove Hall rifling too..
Good luck on your buffalo hunt, Hope we see some pics..
Big Goose