54 Cal buffalo hunt accuracy issues

[mikesto44]

Out of my T.C. I like maxis . Better results on bigger critters. Good friend of mine raises buffalo for meat whole sale. I've killed eight of them for him so far. Plus one wild buff in South Dakota. Getting close can be a trick indeed. If the buff are treated like cattle on a ranch then not so much. I would NOT suggest a head shot on one. Especially with a round ball. JM2C

 

[LME]

I killed one several years ago with a Hatfield .54 using 80 grains of 3F at about 50 yards. I was hunting in Nebraska in the winter. It was a pretty easy hunt just a bit of crawling to get within range. I saw the ball hit just a little low right behind the right shoulder, the dang critter didn't act as if were even hit it kept walking along started to wobble, and fell over after about 30 yards. the ball had penetrated both lungs

I have read a few books that mentioned hunters hired to hunt Bison for their hides. They would sit in one place and shoot Bison all day. There would be a huge pile of shell casing where the hunter were shooting from. They knew where to hit them so the herd wasn't spooked ? One would think they arn't very hard to kill if you hit them in the right spot? The rifles of the day were about the same in killing power as a muzzle loader I would think?

 

[ike]

I learned a lot from your replies. I looked at the past patches what I could find of them. Loaded with 100 gr 2 f Geox and a over powder cushion of corn meal and a wool pad on the top with the patch and ball. all shots were very accurate. sometimes we need to have people tell us what we already knew. Thank you all who responded for the help. Ike

 

[Greenjoytj]

In my 54 cal Lyman GPR I found I needed to use a .535” round ball to get patch weave marks to be embossed all around the balls circumstance at both the lands and grooves.
A .530” ball would only emboss marks where the lands pressed the patch onto the ball.

Your lighter powder charge makes muzzle velocity that the relatively loose PRB combination can hold the rifling to take a spin enough to make good accuracy.
The large powder charge makes much higher muzzle velocity, more MV than then the loose PRB combination to take a fast spin from the rifling. The PRB is sliding across the lands of the rifling acting more like a smooth bore than a rifle.

Ball size is always a compromise between the higher accuracy of a tight PRB combination or an easier to load looser PRB combination balanced against the MV you wish to drive them to.

A lubed felt wad between powder and PRB would help trick the combination into fitting the rifling more securely (less skipping) to allow higher MV from a larger powder charge. How much more MV is a matter for experimentations.

 

[LME]

In my 54 cal Lyman GPR I found I needed to use a .535” round ball to get patch weave marks to be embossed all around the balls circumstance at both the lands and grooves.
A .530” ball would only emboss marks where the lands pressed the patch onto the ball.

Your lighter powder charge makes muzzle velocity that the relatively loose PRB combination can hold the rifling to take a spin enough to make good accuracy.
The large powder charge makes much higher muzzle velocity, more MV than then the loose PRB combination to take a fast spin from the rifling. The PRB is sliding across the lands of the rifling acting more like a smooth bore than a rifle.

Ball size is always a compromise between the higher accuracy of a tight PRB combination or an easier to load looser PRB combination balanced against the MV you wish to drive them to.

A lubed felt wad between powder and PRB would help trick the combination into fitting the rifling more securely (less skipping) to allow higher MV from a larger powder charge. How much more MV is a matter for experimentations.

If you shoot a .530 ball use a thicker patch? I shoot .530 and .535 balls and I can't ask for better accuracy, also I use the same patch material?

 

[William Sublette]

I have read a few books that mentioned hunters hired to hunt Bison for their hides. They would sit in one place and shoot Bison all day. There would be a huge pile of shell casing where the hunter were shooting from. They knew where to hit them so the herd wasn't spooked ? One would think they arn't very hard to kill if you hit them in the right spot? The rifles of the day were about the same in killing power as a muzzle loader I would think?

45-90's with long 400gr type bullets will kill much better, at longer range than a 229gr roundballs.


The commercial buffalo hunters used Quigley style rifles.

The mountain men used plains style muzzleloaders that some historians say averaged .53 cal

 

[JimFlint]

Great story and great information Big Goose.
I am still working on finding the right combination of powder, patch and ball for my .54 caliber Woods Runner. I use a Speer .530 round ball with 80gr 2F Swiss. I found that patch size makes a big difference in accuracy; I am using a .15 greased Ox-Yoke patch at this point with good grouping, running a wet cotton patch followed by a dry cotton patch between shots.
Have a great hunt.

 

[Rebel bull]

I am going to South Dakota in a couple of weeks to hunt a buffalo. I have two 54 cal muzzleloaders to use. One is a golden age classic from TWO and one is a TC Hawkin in 54 cal. I am loading with 90 gr of goex 3 f powder and a 530 round ball with a .014 pt patch. I can hit a two-inch circle with them if a have 50 0r 60 gr 3 f powder. I think I need to be loading with at least 90 gr powder to get a load that will kill. I have told the outfitter I need to be within 50 yds. I cannot get groups to be within 8 inch circle. I am using bear grease for a lube and that solved my issue a couple of years ago with cold weather accuracy, I am 75 years old so i have a tripod to steady the rifle but i have my hand under the barrel resting on the tripod. I am looking for any suggestions you may have to get a better group. I have been told that i need to take a lung shot, Thanks for your help or your experience. Ike

I've just about given up on hunting a Buff after 3 bought's of covid/upper respiratory flu/colds /walking pneumonia and being 70 I just don't get around well but still have dreams. what outfitter are you using? approximate cost ? and are these free range or high fence?

 

[ronaldrothb49]

Your not going target shooting where you need 5 shots for score your going hunting. Where does your first shot from a clean bore go? Does that first shot from a clean bore consistently have the same point of impact? When you are hunting it is that first shot from a clean bore that is the one that counts and that is the one shot that your rifle should be sighted in for. When your practicing have 2 targets. Only use one for that first shot and save it for the next time. only use that target for the first shot to find out what your point of impact for that first shot will be, that is the one that counts.

 

[Frontier's]

I'd personally get a new gun. Not a fan of tc barrels,especially with a round ball.

 

[Tanglefoot]

Ike, I killed a young buffalo bull a few years ago that was causing a lot of trouble for a rancher, destroying fences and pestering the purebred cows. It seems the rancher got him as a calf and when the calf got grown there weren’t any buffalo cows available. Anyway, I shot him with a Leman .50 caliber percussion loaded with 90 grains of 3Fg behind a patched pure lead .495 RB. Range was only about 25 yards and he was running diagonally away, left to right. The shot hit him in the crease behind his right front shoulder, exactly where I aimed. He went down in two or three strides. When we dressed him out, we found the ball had passed through lungs, clipped the heart, struck something on the other side and exited through the base of his neck on the left, leaving a ragged hole the size of a quarter. Seemed like pretty fair penetration to me, so I wouldn’t worry about hardening the lead. And again, that was a .50, not a .54, which should pack a heavier punch. On a related subject, the meat will make the best chili you ever put in your mouth !!

 

[Gordoncourtney]

On Oct. 31st my older son and I used our 1819 Hall rifles on buffalo. His is a S. North contract rifle from 1831, Federal conversion to percussion sometime pre- Civil War. , mine is a J. Hall Harpers Ferry rifle from 1837. They both worked fine with the original load of 75 grains of 2f and a .524 pure lead ball.
We use a "buffalo decoy" that you can see in the background of the first pic. Otherwise it's nigh impossible to get close enough to select an older cull cow. Anyways, mine was 110 long paces away when I shot( kneeling, resting on the back of the decoy) held right behind her "elbow" and squeezed off the shot. the flintlock Hall is somewhat akin to Mount Vesuvius erupting right in your line of sight, but ignition is very fast. The ball ripped through both lungs and punched a big hole through the top of her heart, clipped the far side shoulder bone, and was against the hide on the far side. She took a couple jumps, staggered maybe 20 yards, and layed down pretty much as she is in the picture.
Zac was able to get a bit closer as his cow stayed next to the one I shot, but there were also 5 younger bulls crowded around her. He went down along side the coulee, and got to within 80 yards of them. One of the bulls started advancing toward him, but then then the big old cow stepped into the clear. She turned sideways and he fired. The ball hit behind her shoulder, she staggered and she ambled down the side of the coulee. She stopped head down and bleeding at about 120 yards. He had reloaded by then and shot her again as she was quartering away. That ball went in behind the last rib on her right side and was pasted against the hide low in her neck. It plopped out when we were skinning her. It didn't hit any bone, but did angle through the lungs.
The first shot killed her, and that ball exited, going through both lungs and some big arteries.
Last year I used an original 1817 US Common rifle, with the same ball, ( but patched) and same 75 grains of 2 f. That cow was closer and I plumb centered her heart, she only took a couple jumps and collapsed.
Bottom line , get close, aim carefully, shoot the load that shoots the best in your rifle. I believe that too much velocity will severely limit your penetration with a round ball, and yes- if you're going to go for more velocity, consider a harder alloy.. maybe 20-1 or so.
Bigger is better when it comes to round balls and really big game, but shot placement is most important.
Oh, and though the ball recovered from my buffalo is deformed and flattened, it still weighs 215 grains. Zac's is just shy of 219 grains- exactly as it was cast. I like the imprints of the sixteen groove Hall rifling too..
Good luck on your buffalo hunt, Hope we see some pics..
Big Goose

On Oct. 31st my older son and I used our 1819 Hall rifles on buffalo. His is a S. North contract rifle from 1831, Federal conversion to percussion sometime pre- Civil War. , mine is a J. Hall Harpers Ferry rifle from 1837. They both worked fine with the original load of 75 grains of 2f and a .524 pure lead ball.
We use a "buffalo decoy" that you can see in the background of the first pic. Otherwise it's nigh impossible to get close enough to select an older cull cow. Anyways, mine was 110 long paces away when I shot( kneeling, resting on the back of the decoy) held right behind her "elbow" and squeezed off the shot. the flintlock Hall is somewhat akin to Mount Vesuvius erupting right in your line of sight, but ignition is very fast. The ball ripped through both lungs and punched a big hole through the top of her heart, clipped the far side shoulder bone, and was against the hide on the far side. She took a couple jumps, staggered maybe 20 yards, and layed down pretty much as she is in the picture.
Zac was able to get a bit closer as his cow stayed next to the one I shot, but there were also 5 younger bulls crowded around her. He went down along side the coulee, and got to within 80 yards of them. One of the bulls started advancing toward him, but then then the big old cow stepped into the clear. She turned sideways and he fired. The ball hit behind her shoulder, she staggered and she ambled down the side of the coulee. She stopped head down and bleeding at about 120 yards. He had reloaded by then and shot her again as she was quartering away. That ball went in behind the last rib on her right side and was pasted against the hide low in her neck. It plopped out when we were skinning her. It didn't hit any bone, but did angle through the lungs.
The first shot killed her, and that ball exited, going through both lungs and some big arteries.
Last year I used an original 1817 US Common rifle, with the same ball, ( but patched) and same 75 grains of 2 f. That cow was closer and I plumb centered her heart, she only took a couple jumps and collapsed.
Bottom line , get close, aim carefully, shoot the load that shoots the best in your rifle. I believe that too much velocity will severely limit your penetration with a round ball, and yes- if you're going to go for more velocity, consider a harder alloy.. maybe 20-1 or so.
Bigger is better when it comes to round balls and really big game, but shot placement is most important.
Oh, and though the ball recovered from my buffalo is deformed and flattened, it still weighs 215 grains. Zac's is just shy of 219 grains- exactly as it was cast. I like the imprints of the sixteen groove Hall rifling too..
Good luck on your buffalo hunt, Hope we see some pics..
Big Goose

I nearly put a bid on it. Uk

Full Details for Lot 402​

Loading...









FINE MODERN & ANTIQUE ARMS - DECEMBER 2024 : SALE A1224 LOT 402
A .577 FLINTLOCK HEAVY-BARRELLED BUFFALO RIFLE FOR RESTORATION, UNSIGNED, no visible serial number,

Add to calendar



Bid Now
Enquiry


PRODUCT DETAILS
A .577 FLINTLOCK HEAVY-BARRELLED BUFFALO RIFLE FOR RESTORATION, UNSIGNED, no visible serial number,
English produced for the American market circa 1830, Birmingham proved 33 3/4in. heavy octagonal barrel 1 9/16in. across the flats, multigroove rifling, later dove-tailed brass fore-sight, no provision for rear-sight, remodelled squared breech, borderline and scroll engraved top-tang fitted with a folding peep-sight, provision for a clipped tail bar-action lock (absent), stripy maple half-stock chequered at the wrist and with large rectangular iron patch-box, trigger-guard bow with scrolled raised lower tang, single set-trigger, twin barrel keys, applied under-rib (lifting) with two plain ramrod thimbles and replacement ramrod



Please click HERE to view Terms & Conditions. Please note all Lots are listed in accordance with UK Law, for overseas buyers, please ensure you are familiar with your relevant local firearms and customs regulations before bidding.

Estimate £300-500





PREV LOT
NEXT LOT
TOTAL PRICE CALCULATOR
WHAT IS YOUR SPENDING LIMIT?

HOLTS​

Church Farm Barns​

Wolferton​

Norfolk, PE31 6HA​

England​

Phone: +44 (0) 1485 542 822​

​

Email:[email protected]​

Privacy Policy​

© Copyright 2024 HOLTS Auctioneers. All Rights Reserved

I got this Scottish 577 with a 36” barrel anyway , shame it has to be a wall hanger in uk.

 

[longcruise]

I'd personally get a new gun. Not a fan of tc barrels,especially with a round ball.

He has two rifles.

 

[Bad Karma]

I got this Scottish 577 with a 36” barrel anyway , shame it has to be a wall hanger in uk.

That should be here hunting Bison, or in Africa killing antelope. Beautiful rifle.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

That should be here hunting Bison, or in Africa killing antelope. Beautiful rifle.

That should be here hunting Bison, or in Africa killing antelope. Beautiful rifle.

Life is not fair, you with repro guns and great hunting, the old country plenty of old guns and virtually no hunting

It was advertised as. Smooth bore so nobody bid on it. I won and soon it was rifled 1/37” twist There we good gunmakers in Scotland like Aberdeen . I win 1/5 at Holts on line auction. Thank you for your comments. Gordon uk

 

[fleener]

There are very few places in the world that you can hunt bison in the wild that are not ranch animals.

Now some of these ranches are huge and the bison need a heck of fence to keep them in.

Fleener

 

[waksupi]

There are very few places in the world that you can hunt bison in the wild that are not ranch animals.

Now some of these ranches are huge and the bison need a heck of fence to keep them in.

Fleener

Yep, one friend's buffalo ranch is 32,000 acres. That's 50 square miles. And still a small ranch in many areas of the west.

 

[Texcl2]

People equate more velocity with more penetration but often too much velocity causes the projectile to flatten excessively and limit penetration. There’s a happy medium there and of course you can harden the ball too.

 

[JDBraddy]

Am not a hunter, but do a lot of shooting with PRB's, and .015" sounds too thin for that combination, will weiger your accuracy would improve noticably with a .020" or thicker patch material. Finding the right ball/patch/charge combo will require some experimentation.

 

[Mad Professor]

I'd personally get a new gun. Not a fan of tc barrels,especially with a round ball.

TC made some dandy 1-66 twist RB barrels with deep rifling. They are few and far between. I've got one in 54 cal.