Breech Fouling Scraper

Looking for info on a double barrel shotgun. I put a bore scope in my barrels and noticed a lot of crud in the breech area. As it looks like removing the plugs is out of the question, I'm thinking of using a breech fouling scraper. But I'm not sure what size to order. My bores average out to .675. I think they are cylinder bore and not choked.
Maybe even scraping the sides.
Any help appreciated.

That's a pretty nasty mess. I think I would opt for a worm with tow. For a jag, you can most likely find a .69 size, and file it down in a drill press, and recut the grooves. How old is this gun?

waksupi said:

That's a pretty nasty mess. I think I would opt for a worm with tow. For a jag, you can most likely find a .69 size, and file it down in a drill press, and recut the grooves. How old is this gun?

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Not sure how old it is. Pre-breech loading I'm sure. It has fancy scrolling all over the barrel. And what looks like brass inletting or inlays.
I have some steel mesh and a brass rod. I chucked it to my drill motor and it cleaned up pretty good.
I'm using a brass brush to finish it up before I lube it.
I'll try to get out sometime this week and proof it. I have plenty cannon fuse.
I run the bore scope and couldn't see any problems in there. Some pitting is all. Nothing looked deep to be serious.

Considering the appearance of the nasty area inside, and the fact it's damascus barrel, I would stand WAY back to test it. I imagine if it was magnafluxed, it would leak like a sieve. I would personally either re-line it, or hang it on the wall to look at. No sense injuring either the gun or yourself. I think the wall hanging idea would be the best for this. The more I look at the pictures, the more it gives me the heebie jeebies! When you say you THINK it's pre-breechloading, that tells me you know little about these and the safety factors.

waksupi said:

That's a pretty nasty mess. I think I would opt for a worm with tow. For a jag, you can most likely find a .69 size, and file it down in a drill press, and recut the grooves. How old is this gun?

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16ga jags would be for .66 which should do you fine.

waksupi said:

Considering the appearance of the nasty area inside, and the fact it's damascus barrel, I would stand WAY back to test it. I imagine if it was magnafluxed, it would leak like a sieve. I would personally either re-line it, or hang it on the wall to look at. No sense injuring either the gun or yourself. I think the wall hanging idea would be the best for this. The more I look at the pictures, the more it gives me the heebie jeebies! When you say you THINK it's pre-breechloading, that tells me you know little about these and the safety factors.

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What I meant is that it's older than a breech loader. 1870s ? I have two breech loaders that I use black powder shells. Both are Damascus. I restored both of them. Both were "wall hangers".
I see no reason why this muzzleloader will not hold up. I've shot an old 1861 Springfield converted to shotgun "wallhanger" that was worse than this one.
BTW, I got all the crud out and clean. Lubed and ready to test.

flconch53 said:

16ga jags would be for .66 which should do you fine.

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So its a 16 gauge ? Not that it matters. I have plenty sizes of punches I can make my own wads and cards.
Thanks for the info.

Jappo said:

So its a 16 gauge ? Not that it matters. I have plenty sizes of punches I can make my own wads and cards.
Thanks for the info.

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I was responding to the statement that you could get a .69 jag and file it down

flconch53 said:

I was responding to the statement that you could get a .69 jag and file it down

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Oh ok, I got some steel mesh from a butcher's glove. It did the job. Its nice and clean now.
Appreciate ya nonetheless.

at least "proof" the barrels out of the stock i case it goes bad.

2 shots said:

at least "proof" the barrels out of the stock i case it goes bad.

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Yes sir, those are my plans. I have a rig made just for that. My main concern are the nipples. Although they "feel good" I've had them shoot out of a barrel. This was in a repro Sears Zouave and a CVA double.

waksupi said:

When you say you THINK it's pre-breechloading, that tells me you know little about these and the safety factors.

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There are several red flag indicators of this.

"Some people you just can't reach..."

I'm thinking it's a troll. No one could be so ignorant.

Brokennock said:

There are several red flag indicators of this.

"Some people you just can't reach..."

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waksupi said:

I'm thinking it's a troll. No one could be so ignorant.

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Haha, I'm no troll. I'm serious. I was just trying to figure out what size scraper I needed. As I mentioned earlier, I got it cleaned out.
I loaded it up with 85gr 2f, 3/8" over powder, same measure of #4 shot and thin card over that. The second round I just doubled up on the shot.
The barrels held up good. After a good inspection I put the barrels on the stock. Loaded with 60gr and shouldered it. Shot at some mistletoe. Should bring down dove or quail.
Thanks for y'alls replies.
Next time I won't ask for help.
Sorry to bother y'all...

I didn't see this earlier. Would have saved me a lot of trouble.

Jappo said:

Haha, I'm no troll. I'm serious. I was just trying to figure out what size scraper I needed. As I mentioned earlier, I got it cleaned out.
I loaded it up with 85gr 2f, 3/8" over powder, same measure of #4 shot and thin card over that. The second round I just doubled up on the shot.
The barrels held up good. After a good inspection I put the barrels on the stock. Loaded with 60gr and shouldered it. Shot at some mistletoe. Should bring down dove or quail.
Thanks for y'alls replies.
Next time I won't ask for help.
Sorry to bother y'all...

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The issue isn't your wanting a breach scraper or your wanting to clean out the junk in the bore. Even if just hanging the gun on the wall, removing that crud and stabilizing the condition of the metal is a good idea.
You are taking heat for your insistence on firing what is quite likely to be an unsafe set of barrels. The wording of your posts indicates that you most likely don't realize what you are really looking at, yet you insist on ignoring the advice of someone who does know what those barrels are and how they are made.

These are NOT etched or engraved barrels. All those lines are edges of pieces of metal joined together in the Damascus welding process. Those welds are easily compromised by pitting and corrosion on the inside of the barrel.

A smart person would have least had someone magnaflux the barrels before trying to test fire them.

Jappo said:

The barrels held up good. After a good inspection I put the barrels on the stock. Loaded with 60gr and shouldered it. Shot

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I do honestly hope your luck holds out.

I see where your concern is coming from. I am aware these are Damascus barrels.
For lack of proper wording I called it scrolling. Maybe patterning? Or flow? Whatever its called, it is "exquisite", with no flaws in the pattern throughout.
And I know, "Damascus", just the word brings the heebie jeebies to a lot of shooters and hunters.
I've worked on a lot of Damascus barreled shotguns. Never the barrels themselves because I never have run into the problem of loose ribs or separation of barrels. Mostly the locks or box lock mechanism. Especially the hinge pins and lock up mechanism.
As for the Damascus barrels I have shot regular loads out of them to "test" the integrity of the barrels. You never know when someone is going to use them. I recommend low velocity/recoil shells or loaded with black powder.
I have a couple Damascus I shoot often. Full brass casings black powder.
The "flow" patterns are not as fine as they are on this one. One is stamped London Twist.
This is btw my first muzzleloader with Damascus barrels. While the load is confined to the breech area and not in a casing. I understand extra precautions should be taken. Since the only thing I have to inspect the breech is the bore scope. I scrutinized the area as best I could. I saw no deep pitting or cracks/separation of the metal. The only option I had left was to shoot it.

I routinely use breech scrapers like the ones you posted to clean the breech face on my black powder guns.

From your pictures I assumed you had a patent (reduced diameter) breech, in which case the breech scraper would not help you.

Was that "shoulder" actual crud that came out? You have a full-diameter bore all the way to the breech face? I'd love to see the "after" picture!

maillemaker said:

I routinely use breech scrapers like the ones you posted to clean the breech face on my black powder guns.

From your pictures I assumed you had a patent (reduced diameter) breech, in which case the breech scraper would not help you.

Was that "shoulder" actual crud that came out? You have a full-diameter bore all the way to the breech face? I'd love to see the "after" picture!

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Now that you mentioned it. That might be a shoulder. Its hard to tell.
Here's a couple pictures of after.
The ones with the arrows are the channels to the nipples.