Help Selecting a New Rifle (Cap vs Percussion, and more)

Advice and recommendations

I currently have a Lyman Deer Stalker .50 percussion I purchased in 2016, which I got a deer with in fall 2016. Prior to that I had a CVA Hawken .50 percussion model I had picked up at a gun show. Between the two I have had a much better time with the Deer Stalker. I was able to get the CVA sighted in, and it was very accurate, but not fire reliably. I believe the shape of the little barrel where the cap nipple sits is one of the issues with the CVA I had, not a direct channel to get the main charge to burn.

Hindsight, I would have purchased the Lyman GPR percussion in 2016 over the Deer Stalker. At the time I didn’t know I wanted to shoot only PRB, but after testing the rifle out with conical and PRB, that’s exactly what I want to do. I am able to get very good bench rest results at 50 yards with the Lyman, and softball size at 100 yards when I had the peep sight that I didn’t really care for. The Deer Stalker fiber optic sights and sight plane (due to short barrel) seem to be what are holding me back at 100y. I could change the sights out to something like the RMC V Peep, but that may not solve the issue due to the shorter sight plane. I’m not opposed to 1:48” based on my previous results with a 1:48” but have heard the 1:60” or 1:66” will do better with PRB. This brings me to my current issue.

What to do/buy next: Change out the sights or buy a new rifle? (maybe sell the Deer Stalker)


1. If I am buying a new rifle, the first question/issue is percussion vs flintlock.

One of the main driving factors I have in trying flintlock is the scarcity of caps that has developed since 2020. I have always been averse to flintlock because of all of the complaints I’ve read online. But the same can be said for percussion sidelocks in online commentary. Some flintlock folks have said after time and experience the flintlock can be very reliable. I would have to believe this is true given the success of the PA flintlock season. But the simplicity of the percussion is hard to ignore. My primary purpose for this new rifle will be target shooting and black powder meet ups. I may hunt with it eventually.

Any advice from experience between the two would be greatly appreciated.


2. The next question, which rifle? Looking for .50 cal to shoot PRB.

The good news is, there seems to be a flintlock and percussion version of all rifles I am considering. I believe I am more interested in purchasing a completed rifle over a kit. Unless someone can make a strong reason why to buy a kit and not just do some of the work to improve the prebuilt completed rifle. I’m a little nervous about the spark on the Traditions percussion for similar reasons I had issues with the CVA mentioned above, where the Investarm has a better integrated percussions nipple. I’m not sure how the flintlock pan compares to the Investarm, from what I can tell, they seem similar. Prices are as of 10/9/2024.

• Traditions Kentucky percussion 33.5” barrel, 1:66” twist - $469.99 MidwayUSA.com
• Traditions Kentucky flintlock 33.5” barrel, 1:66” twist - $569.99 Muzzle-Loaders.com
• Investarm Bridger Hawken percussion 28” barrel, 1:48” twist – 589.99 Muzzle-Loaders.com
• Investarm Bridger Hawken flintlock 28” barrel, 1:48” twist – 639.99 Muzzle-Loaders.com
• Investarm Gemmer Hawken percussion 32” barrel, 1:60” twist – 679.99 Muzzle-Loaders.com
• Investarm Gemmer Hawken flintlock 32” barrel, 1:60” twist – 749.99 Muzzle-Loaders.com

The Bridger Hawken flintlock is $50 off currently and seems like a really good deal, though it has a slightly shorter barrel and 1:48” twist. This could be a good compromise of weight and barrel length. But the Gemmer Hawken flintlock might be exactly what I am looking for even though it is $110 more.

If flintlock is the way: $569.99, $639.99, & 749.99, $100~ difference for each step. I could wait and see if the Gemmer goes on sale at some point.

As you can see, I may be stuck in a bit of analysis paralysis. I would rather not look back 8 years later and regret my decision like I do with the Deer Stalker. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a quality rifle and shoots well, just doesn’t do exactly what I’m looking for and I noticed these faults in 2016/2017.

I'm looking forward to reading your advice and experience. Thank you.

-Tim

Edit: Muzzle-loaders.com has the kentucky flintlock kit for $429 until October 15th.. That's hard to pass up. Still looking for advice.

On the subject of rifling, the original Hawken is recognized as an accurate reliable rifle with its patent breech and 1/48” rifling. Modern shooters using the least expensive rifles have been critical of both these features. When you consider a flintlock the lock can not be short changed. Look at the price of good locks and you’ll see that $250 to $300 for just a lock. When you buy a rifle for less than $600 where are the manufacturers saving money? Barrel, wood, sights or other. Many people spend money on replacement locks, trigger, sights etc. That increases the price and the effort to get a rifle that fills the need. Buy the best you can once then enjoy it for life.

And of course, a lot depends on what your plans are for the longer term, any plans for reenacting, buy a lock that is suitable for the time frame of the events you plan to attend.

Mid to late 1700's is the time frame of interest for me so I am almost all flint.

Hunting only? A percussion may be your best choice for hunting in inclement weather.

Targets only? Depending on benchrest only or off hand... for benchrest a percussion may be better, I prefer a flint for off-hand.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I found a few front sights (non-fiber optic) that fit the Lyman Deerstalker and the V Peep rear sight. I'll maximize the hardware on this rifle to see what I can get. If I am still unsatisfied with the ability of the front sight covering too much of the target. If I am unsatisfied with the results I am getting, I'll look at purchasing a new rifle.

I am pretty settled in on the Gemmer for when I pull the trigger on a new rifle. Crossing the bridge of flint vs percussion will be settled when I'm ready to click buy. I am hoping the Deerstalker can get me through for a while at the meetups and woods walks I am going to. They state PRB only, which I have a load dialed in for that. Just hope they don't expect a more historical look piece.

-Tim

TimInTheMitten said:

I have always been averse to flintlock because of all of the complaints I’ve read online

Click to expand...

You are way-way overthinking this matter. Flintlocks are, by nature, very finicky and frustrating to use. They are old and obsolete ignition system. But, that is also their charm. A big reason most of us got into this crazy ml avocation was to preserve and enjoy the old ways. If that is not your goal, stick with what you have and works for you. Reading your entire post it seems that you are doing OK with the Lyman. Why mess with success?

Rifleman1776 said:

You are way-way overthinking this matter. Flintlocks are, by nature, very finicky and frustrating to use. They are old and obsolete ignition system. But, that is also their charm. A big reason most of us got into this crazy ml avocation was to preserve and enjoy the old ways. If that is not your goal, stick with what you have and works for you. Reading your entire post it seems that you are doing OK with the Lyman. Why mess with success?

Click to expand...

Me, overthink? Don't tell my wife. haha

I will be sticking with the Lyman for a bit. I wish it was a longer barrel and a longer sight plane. That is my only complaint with the rifle. I have a difficult time past 50 yards with the sights that are on it, much past that the sight covers completely what I am shooting at. The Gemmer Hawken model has the longer barrel and may be better for sight picture.

I'm stick with the Lyman and the new sights I having coming and hopefully try some different muzzleloaders at some meetups and woods walks that are coming up.

Thank you for the insight, it does help my decision.

-Tim

to long ago when we weren't allowed to use scopes for the muzzleloader season I installed a set Hi-Viz sights for a model 94 on my CVA kentucky 45 the reason was gaining 1/2 hr in the morning and approx 45min in the evening for me the green both front and rear gave me the best results I was always the last into camp I also found that when going to local paper shoots even territorials i was always in the top 10%. I no longer can use that long gun (can't hold it) I have switched to the carbine length rifle and still use the same sights and unless I go to far beyond 100yds I give up nothing. as for your ignition problems on the CVA hawken I believe that your problems are self inflicted by your cleaning method my family has over 20 CVA/TRADITIONS guns of varying ages and regularly shoot 50 rounds with out cleaning between shots and never have ignition problems. boiling hot water to flush putting the breech in the bucket pump it up and down until the barrel gets to hot to hold dry with patches after its dry while its still warm run a wonderlubed patch down and out turn the patch over and down and out 1 last time by doing this you will never have a problem unless you are using the wrong nipple witch extends to far into the fire channel

TimInTheMitten said:

Thanks for the advice everyone. I found a few front sights (non-fiber optic) that fit the Lyman Deerstalker and the V Peep rear sight. I'll maximize the hardware on this rifle to see what I can get. If I am still unsatisfied with the ability of the front sight covering too much of the target. If I am unsatisfied with the results I am getting, I'll look at purchasing a new rifle.

I am pretty settled in on the Gemmer for when I pull the trigger on a new rifle. Crossing the bridge of flint vs percussion will be settled when I'm ready to click buy. I am hoping the Deerstalker can get me through for a while at the meetups and woods walks I am going to. They state PRB only, which I have a load dialed in for that. Just hope they don't expect a more historical look piece.

-Tim

Click to expand...

Flint is more fun...and as for hunting...flint gives the animal time to get away...the sporting chance,. The chance is why I use a flinter.

thank you, your answers were interesting for me

I see your problem and have an easy fix. Don't restrict yourself to one or the other. Get one of each. I know that it will add up to a whole lot of money but with a little creative financing, hiding it from the wife, you should soon find yourself a nice little stockpile of muzzleloaders. It's a sickness man. If I could just get my doctor to see that and convince the insurance company of that and get a persciption for that Kibler I've had my eye on.
All kidding aside a .50 cal Hawkin style percussion cap is a very good choice. Now which brand to choose from.
Enjoy!

Rifleman1776 said:

You are way-way overthinking this matter. Flintlocks are, by nature, very finicky and frustrating to use. They are old and obsolete ignition system.

Click to expand...

I guess I'm a bit shocked at this. With a quality lock, I've not found my flintlocks to be finicky or frustrating at all. In fact, compared to some caplocks with long fire channels, I find them superior!

IIRC, you have a Dave Person built flinter with Dave's fantastic lock tuning and finishing, as do I. That thing fires off every time, even with relatively dull flints and no touch hole picking! I think Phil hit the nail on the head in his comment.

I many times see YouTube videos of people with cheap production flintlocks, who probably don't know much about them, comment on just how "unreliable" they are (I know that's not you). I think it is a combination of poor lock quality and inadequate knowledge of a few simple procedures to ensure consistent reliability.

A quality flinter and a little knowledge and care and reliability is not an issue...at least that's my experience. But, if a person is unsure, by all means, stick with percussion.