PA Game Commission to Ruin Flintlock Season?
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Not possible, the Saturday rifle opener brought in more hunters, more interest, the youts are all about it, record kills, and the economy is better because of it!
(That was sarcasm)
Agree with the more hunter interest but disagree with the economy. With the traditional opening the Monday after thanksgiving the small towns that need the hunter income had a good business on Fri, Sat and Sun. Plus the guys that stayed Mon and Tues added more to the local businesses. Our camp is pretty typical of PA deer hunters. The last two years everyone rushes up Friday (day after Thanksgiving) and eats at the local tavern Fri night. Saturday after a long day hunting it's leftovers from turkey day. Prior to the change we would put stands up Sat and have lunch at one tavern. Then have dinner at a more local place. Sunday would be leftovers or members food. Monday was at a local bar to tell deer stories later in the day. .Most guys would stay all day Tues or some would leave afternoon. Now on Sunday the majority hunt a half day and head for home, Only a couple stay past that and total spending is a small fraction of what it was before the day change. Now we get more (?) hunters but less $$$ pumped into towns that need it.
I'm with @bldtrailer on this one.
The deer are so skittish and tucked into the small pockets of private, wooded land at that point that it takes the utmost in stealth to get them. The deer that are not in those particular areas are highly nocturnal. State game land is also mostly barren of deer having been run off seeking quiet private plots.
The best bet at that time of year in that part of the state is crossbow hunting in suburban and urban wood lots. Orange attracts the attention of not just the deer, but the antis who run rampant in those areas. In the end the orange requirement really kills the incentive to killing deer during the extended firearms season.
The deer are so skittish and tucked into the small pockets of private, wooded land at that point that it takes the utmost in stealth to get them. The deer that are not in those particular areas are highly nocturnal. State game land is also mostly barren of deer having been run off seeking quiet private plots.
The best bet at that time of year in that part of the state is crossbow hunting in suburban and urban wood lots. Orange attracts the attention of not just the deer, but the antis who run rampant in those areas. In the end the orange requirement really kills the incentive to killing deer during the extended firearms season.
Well....it's not the job of the Game Commission to be concerned about or promote the economy. We can debate that point until the cows come home.
FO does in fact save lives and prevent accidents. IMHO it's foolish not to wear it in a high power rifle season. But, fools do what they do.
The crazy part about the FO rules when seasons overlap (archery\early ML)...and early ML season is NOT a primitive weapon season. I have a T\C in-line with a scope that's an easy dead on 200yd rifle.
But the rules say if you are archery hunting in this overlap season, no FO is required. But, if you are carrying a modern in-line or a high power rifle (allowed for old guys in the early ML season) during the early season, you must wear FO. Ok....but if I'm shooting an arrow the target is close. I'm pretty sure I'll know if it's a deer or a guy. OTOH, if I'm shooting an in-line or rifle, and I can't see the archery hunter that's 200yds away.....well....you get my point.
And just to point out one other nonsense rule.....during the post Christmas flintlock season, in the "Special Regulation" areas around Philly and Pittsburgh (I live just east of Pittsburgh) you can use your flintlock long gun. But you can't use a flintlock pistol (50 cal or more) in the SRA's. Because the SRA's are more densely populated, you can use a long rifle that has more velocity and thus, more distance, but you can't use a pistol that can't shoot a projectile as far? How's that make sense?
FO does in fact save lives and prevent accidents. IMHO it's foolish not to wear it in a high power rifle season. But, fools do what they do.
The crazy part about the FO rules when seasons overlap (archery\early ML)...and early ML season is NOT a primitive weapon season. I have a T\C in-line with a scope that's an easy dead on 200yd rifle.
But the rules say if you are archery hunting in this overlap season, no FO is required. But, if you are carrying a modern in-line or a high power rifle (allowed for old guys in the early ML season) during the early season, you must wear FO. Ok....but if I'm shooting an arrow the target is close. I'm pretty sure I'll know if it's a deer or a guy. OTOH, if I'm shooting an in-line or rifle, and I can't see the archery hunter that's 200yds away.....well....you get my point.
And just to point out one other nonsense rule.....during the post Christmas flintlock season, in the "Special Regulation" areas around Philly and Pittsburgh (I live just east of Pittsburgh) you can use your flintlock long gun. But you can't use a flintlock pistol (50 cal or more) in the SRA's. Because the SRA's are more densely populated, you can use a long rifle that has more velocity and thus, more distance, but you can't use a pistol that can't shoot a projectile as far? How's that make sense?
Deer cannot see orange…
GANGGREEN
45 Cal.
Yeah, much ado about nothing really as the proposals didn't pass. For a very long time I've called out the game commission when I thought they were making mistakes, but too often a thread like this turns into a rant from anybody that didn't get a deer this year (or last year or in the last 20 years) and people are slow to recognize how good they've got it (to have a true flintlock season in the first place, to have a million acres of state games lands and several million more of other public land, to have large deer populations (and we do), etc. etc.). The one thing about these proposals that hasn't garnered any attention, even not here on this forum is the fact that there was a proposal to allow single projectile muzzleloaders and ammo again for the fall turkey season and that proposal also failed. I stopped hunting fall turkeys here because I simply don't want to hunt them with shotguns and preferred a flintlock rifle. If people want to put some energy into complaining about something to (or about) the game commission, I'd recommend that they call or email their commissioners and ask them to allow flintlock rifles for the fall turkey season. Having investigated more hunting accidents in Pennsylvania than almost anyone over the last 30 or 40 years, I completely understand why they did away with centerfire rifles for fall turkey hunting (although statistics show that even THOSE accidents are quite rare and much lower than they once were), but I seriously doubt that there's ever been a turkey hunting accident in the fall where a flintlock rifle was the firearm of choice.
I use to hunt fall turkey and I used a bolt action .223 with my handloads using a solid point non-expanding bullet. (Yes...they were legal for fall birds). Very successful in that the bullet did a quick kill with no meat damage.
I hear you on the "I didn't get a deer" rant, but those are less and less. We are in a prime hunting time period for big rack whitetails. Back in the '70's a small "basket rack" 8pt was considered a trophy. Today, I pass on those.
But the topic is the Game Commission allowing high power rifles in the post Christmas flintlock season.
The Commission controls deer harvest using two methods. One being season time frame and the other the number of doe tags they issue. Issue more tags.....harvest is up. Allow more time....harvest is up.
IMHO if the Commission want's more doe killed in given areas then extend the primitive season to the end of January in those areas.
steelhorse814
32 Cal
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The PA Game Commission Didn't Ban Rifles for Fall Turkey Because of Hunting Accidents ! There Words Were More Hen Turkeys Were Being Killed in the Fall Season by Rifle Hunters !
Wear Florescent Orange in Late Flintlock Muzzleloader Season ! Back in the early 1980''s a Hunter was shot and killed in the late flintlock muzzleloader season , Pa Game Commission said if the hunter would have been wearing Florescent Orange the hunter wouldn't have been Shot ! BIG LIE !
It's was reinacted they put a man where the victim was standing in head to toe Florescent Orange and where the shooter was , You could not see one Speck of Florescent Orange .
It was a Freak Accident !
It's was a round ball and bounced off trees like a pin ball machine to have hit the victim !
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GANGGREEN
45 Cal.
Not sure you'd see any appreciable increase in the doe harvest by lengthening the flintlock season for another week or two. Honestly, as others have pointed out, even in the areas where rifles (or inlines) are allowed, the likelihood of actually seeing anyone in the woods at that time with one is slim.
I do agree with you about the buck hunting being far better these days than in the past. I've alluded to the fact that I was a game warden in PA for 32 years, but I'm retired now. When I started, you'd rarely see anything bigger than a forkhorn or very small 6-8 point and the average buck was a spike, 3-point or something similar. Now the average buck is a 2-year old, 15-16" 8 point and it's not at all unusual to see really beautiful mature buck in Pennsylvania, sometimes many of them in a single season. I killed an 8-point last year in PA that scored in the 140-150 range (really big for an 8) and I killed a 120 class 10-point this fall. I've also killed at least 6-8 other buck that were somewhere between the sizes of those two over the last 15 years or so and 30 years ago you simply wouldn't have seen anything like ANY of those buck in the county where I hunt.
I do agree with you about the buck hunting being far better these days than in the past. I've alluded to the fact that I was a game warden in PA for 32 years, but I'm retired now. When I started, you'd rarely see anything bigger than a forkhorn or very small 6-8 point and the average buck was a spike, 3-point or something similar. Now the average buck is a 2-year old, 15-16" 8 point and it's not at all unusual to see really beautiful mature buck in Pennsylvania, sometimes many of them in a single season. I killed an 8-point last year in PA that scored in the 140-150 range (really big for an 8) and I killed a 120 class 10-point this fall. I've also killed at least 6-8 other buck that were somewhere between the sizes of those two over the last 15 years or so and 30 years ago you simply wouldn't have seen anything like ANY of those buck in the county where I hunt.
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PGC has an unlimited supply of gas drilling funds. What do they give a Darned about what hunters want? Most of my favorite places I used to hunt have been clear cut of timber. The days of hunting big timber are over for me. That was part of the flintlock season , hunting in old natural woods, Greed has over run common sense. What do they need , more office space , more employees , more BS research studies , so natural predators can be released into the wilds to further reduce huntable small game species , or more expensive vehicles???? I'm glad I'm old , and my good times are memories now , from 70 + yrs. enjoying the woods and fields , before the greed set in.
I have notice the same thing here. The hunting population is getting less and less. Same thing with gun clubs and shooting sports.
Because I cannot count on my Fellow Man of all being responsible with a weapon in their hands I will always opt to wear orange.
In cases where incidents happen the blanket statement is always "I thought he was a Deer".
Between tree stand fee falls and accidental shootings it,s a good season if one does not occur .
The Pressure in some zones are intense.
In cases where incidents happen the blanket statement is always "I thought he was a Deer".
Between tree stand fee falls and accidental shootings it,s a good season if one does not occur .
The Pressure in some zones are intense.
GANGGREEN
45 Cal.
As I mentioned previously, I've investigated at least several dozen "hunting accidents". I'm not sure that your suggestion here is true. Some victims were mistaken for game, but there are also some that were line of sight accidents (the victim was a long distance behind a real deer, turkey, etc., maybe over a hill and out of sight), some were legitimate ricochets (rare) and some were honest accidents where the victim was incredibly unlucky and all of the orange in the world wouldn't have changed things. That said, it's undeniably true that blaze orange DOES decrease the number of hunting accidents in a general sense and since deer aren't terribly bothered by the presence of it, I think it's always wise to wear it, especially on public land where you may encounter other hunters.
Brokennock
Cannon
I keep reading and hearing about this "decline" in hunter numbers. Maybe? I'm not seeing it. Decline in hours available to hunters to hunt due to economic reasons and having to work more? Maybe? Less time hunting due to less land available? Maybe we're getting somewhere now?
I've been pushed put of my best areas (and from trail can footage so have the deer) by hoards of bumbling new guys. Treestands set up in the middle of trails (not necessarily deer trails) or set up a couple yards from other stands, groundblinds set up a few feet from a treestand that's been there since spring......
Seems every year the number of guys either new to hunting or new to the area/property grows, this year I basically gave up, have higher priorities economically anyway.
Sorry, not buying into less hunters.
I'm sorry to see that PA is even remotely trying to mess with the success and popularity of that special season. So many of us are jealous of it. I'd love to see a similar season here,,, but earlier, say late October.
I've been pushed put of my best areas (and from trail can footage so have the deer) by hoards of bumbling new guys. Treestands set up in the middle of trails (not necessarily deer trails) or set up a couple yards from other stands, groundblinds set up a few feet from a treestand that's been there since spring......
Seems every year the number of guys either new to hunting or new to the area/property grows, this year I basically gave up, have higher priorities economically anyway.
Sorry, not buying into less hunters.
I'm sorry to see that PA is even remotely trying to mess with the success and popularity of that special season. So many of us are jealous of it. I'd love to see a similar season here,,, but earlier, say late October.
True and eventually they will allow single shot modern weapons happened in Louisiana
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Do they still close the schools on 1st Day? After the covid closings, you'd think they'd be skittish about kids missing more school days...but hunting is hunting, right?
I’ve hunted a lot in regular season with my ml.
What Billybob is shooting doesn’t affect me. So he’s shooting an inline, I can still get deer in killing range.
And if a deer doesn’t come down the trail I’m setting by, I’ve still had a great time in the woods
What Billybob is shooting doesn’t affect me. So he’s shooting an inline, I can still get deer in killing range.
And if a deer doesn’t come down the trail I’m setting by, I’ve still had a great time in the woods
MD now has a primitive weapons season 2/1, 2/3, 2/4. Longbow, recurves, flintlocks, sidelock percussions are allowed. No scopes or electronic aiming devices. Flourescent orange must be worn.
This brings to mind when my son was 11 I had him in a tree and he heard a noise, saw movement, turned with the gun at ready and I stopped him. It was another member of the club and his wife with no orange on dragging out a deer. It was a good way to get shot.
This brings to mind when my son was 11 I had him in a tree and he heard a noise, saw movement, turned with the gun at ready and I stopped him. It was another member of the club and his wife with no orange on dragging out a deer. It was a good way to get shot.
Yea I have to wear orange and when I drive my 4000 lb truck a seat belt. But no helmet on a motorcycle.. Kiss my A__..
