Kibler Hawken?

Indy Durtdigger · 2025-01-18T21:47:43-0500

Polecat_Tom said:
I decided to go with the 1970's era full stock flintlock Hawken fantasy gun. Build in progress.
View attachment 376957

At least those are nice looking. I picked up one someone made in that time frame that can only be described as a Colonial/fowler/musket/rifle thingy. Originally had plans to rework it entirely but finally decided someone put a ton of effort into building it. Even though it's all wrong all I need it to do is be functional so just fixed some egregious errors in the build and she's waiting on better weather to get back at it as intended.

beardedhorse · 2025-01-19T03:38:06-0500

John Brown, Mormon soldier used a 66 cal. fullstock Hawken with scroll trigger guard and Tennesse cheek piece. The "super" Hawken Sam recalled at an older age was maybe .69 caliber and made to defend against Arikaras shooting down on their keelboats when William Ashley's group was attacked. We don 't know if it was full or half stock or flint or percussion. Myths die hard. The old belief that all fullstock Hawkens had flat to the wrist trigger guards and Tennessee cheek pieces and all later half stock Plains Hawkens had scroll trigger guards and beaver tail cheek pieces doesn't hold water.. There are examples of actual rifles to dispel these stereotypes. Also evidence that the 1803 half stock Harper's Ferry rifles never went wirh Lewis and Clark's Corp of Discovery. Later half stock Sam Hawken Plain rifles would have been 53 caliber and 1 in 48 inch twist accordingly to Art Ressel of the modern Hawken Shop formerly in St. Louis. Jim Gordon's book of Great guns of the Old West shows some of the many original Hawkens from his museum - both full and half stock. Jim Kibler's Hawken kit will be decided from a myriad of possible artifacts. Can hardly wait to see.

Packrat · 2025-01-19T08:18:03-0500

When I was 20, I humped a 26 Pound M-60 < it was tiering, but I did it. Had a custom-built Pennsylvania rife build, C weigh barbell, extra-long, My Last of the Mohicans rifle. Finally sold it as it was too heavy. About 10 pounds. Not getting any younger

yellowhammer · 2025-01-19T09:39:46-0500

Packrat said:
When I was 20, I humped a 26 Pound M-60 < it was tiering, but I did it. ...

My old dad was a drill instructor in the Korean Conflict. One of their tasks was to quickly sort out and identify the "Moose" dudes who would be assigned the BARs at the squad level LOL. From James Ballou's book: "A typical BAR gunner of the Korean War carried the twelve-magazine belt and combat suspenders, with three or four extra magazines in pockets. Extra canteens, .45 pistol, grenades, and a flak vest added still more weight."

Quite a load compared to my little .45 SMR

Philip Lebow · 2025-01-19T11:06:48-0500

Re Hawkens. built a Hawken Shop kit for a customer. As I am no expert, it looked pretty much like the photos of real ones I studied.
Heavy thing. .54 Cal. A bench rifle for an old fart like me, as I have a metal left arm bone. Customer loved it.
I built myself a Chambers American Jaeger. Much lighter! Anyway, did not draw an elk tag, and the shots in AZ are 500-600 yards.
Suppository guns are what is needed. And, Im too old to hike the mountains and valleys anymore to get close enough for an ML. Phoo. !

Although of no relevance, although I work my guys hard, on Friday at noon, they can work on their own stuff until closing, as do I.
How I find the time to build for myself.
And since we are closed on weekends, they may come in work on their own stuff. Frequently it is just my CNC programmer getting
ready for the next week however.....without distractions of customers...yes he's paid for that!

Patched · 2025-01-19T11:08:25-0500

beardedhorse said:
John Brown, Mormon soldier used a 66 cal. fullstock Hawken with scroll trigger guard and Tennesse cheek piece. The "super" Hawken Sam recalled at an older age was maybe .69 caliber and made to defend against Arikaras shooting down on their keelboats when William Ashley's group was attacked. We don 't know if it was full or half stock or flint or percussion. Myths die hard. The old belief that all fullstock Hawkens had flat to the wrist trigger guards and Tennessee cheek pieces and all later half stock Plains Hawkens had scroll trigger guards and beaver tail cheek pieces doesn't hold water.. There are examples of actual rifles to dispel these stereotypes. Also evidence that the 1803 half stock Harper's Ferry rifles never went wirh Lewis and Clark's Corp of Discovery. Later half stock Sam Hawken Plain rifles would have been 53 caliber and 1 in 48 inch twist accordingly to Art Ressel of the modern Hawken Shop formerly in St. Louis. Jim Gordon's book of Great guns of the Old West shows some of the many original Hawkens from his museum - both full and half stock. Jim Kibler's Hawken kit will be decided from a myriad of possible artifacts. Can hardly wait to see.

For anyone interested…there is a dirt cheap copy of the referenced book by James D. Gordon…on eBay for $350 plus tax, $15 shipping…otherwise it’s $500 everywhere you can find it…

Incredibly great endeavor and book about a priceless collection.

Indy Durtdigger · 2025-01-19T11:21:54-0500

Patched said:
For anyone interested…there is a dirt cheap copy of the referenced book by James D. Gordon…on eBay for $350 plus tax, $15 shipping…otherwise it’s $500 everywhere you can find it…

Incredibly great endeavor and book about a priceless collection.

Yikes. Does one expand their knowledge base or their collection of tools and toys at the cost of ignorance?

brazosland · 2025-01-19T15:32:24-0500

Patched said:
He’s saying to himself, “ Those Jerimiah Johnson boomer boys had their shot at Hawkenmania and blew it with cheap Spanish imports and fights over fur trade fantasies.”
He’ll definitely do his homework thoroughly and offer something authentic and usable.

I disagree with this post. I’m a huge fan of all things Kibler, but his guns are not focused on strict historical accuracy.

Maybe in this case he will be, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.

Indy Durtdigger · 2025-01-19T16:23:06-0500

brazosland said:
I disagree with this post. I’m a huge fan of all things Kibler, but his guns are not focused on strict historical accuracy.

Maybe in this case he will be, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.

This thread has become an informational piece as much as anything. Are you just referring to the use of modern cheats in the kits he offers to get the job done for us less skilled or time deprived types or actual historical inaccuracies in the outward appearance/design?

Capt. Jas. · 2025-01-19T16:24:38-0500

brazosland said:
I disagree with this post. I’m a huge fan of all things Kibler, but his guns are not focused on strict historical accuracy.

Maybe in this case he will be, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.

Can you elaborate on the historical inaccuracies of the 4 current offerings?

Kibler Hawken?

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