.018 VS .015 thick patch

[John V.]

I hope this is not too stupid of a question for this forum? My question is...which thickness of pre-lubed patch .018 or .015 should work better in my .50cal percussion with a .490 round ball? Is it something I just have to experiment with? I have heard some say(in other arenas) that the .018 will be to thick? I am new so guidance (and patienec) is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[wayne terry]

something you will just have to try if 018 works fine if not go to 015 if that's not good enough you mite have to try a diff. size round ball most of us have been through it its part of the hobby and part of the fun shoot shoot and shoot some more good luck to ya.

 

[jamesthomas]

It depends on the depth of the grooves in your rifle. if it is .012 I would use a .018 patch or even better a .024 patch.

 

[BrownBear]

...my .50cal percussion....

There's such a wide range of actual barrel dimensions between brands, and sometimes even individual barrels of the same brand.

Even after doing a lot of professional bore measuring to get the exact dimensions and details, you're still going to have to try different thicknesses of patches in your own gun. It will show you zackly which one it prefers in spite of all the micrometers in the world.

I basically skip all the measuring and head scratching, and go right to the shooting with different thicknesses of patches. The shooting is fun and a great way to get acquainted with a new gun. And patches are cheap, so you're not out an arm and leg trying 3 or 4 different thicknesses.

 

[nchawkeye]

Yep, need to try both...

Also, when hunting, by first 3 balls are patched with .018 ticking, the 4th and 5th are .015...This way if I don't want to swab between shots, loading is a bit easier...

 

[Rifleman1776]

Only your barrel knows. Try both and see which you like best. I'll opin the .015" is probably the most popular but that doesn't mean your barrel will give top performance with it.

 

[necchi]

Like the guy's say it's best to experiment.
But my money is on the .018.

 

[hanshi]

.018" patches would be a good place to start. Too thick; go down to .015". I use .024" ticking in all my guns.

 

[ohio ramrod]

You just have to try and see. Different guns like different "fits" for ball diameter and patch thickness. :hmm: I find that the tightest fit I can reasonable load is usually the most accurate. Too loose or having to "pound it in" are seldom as accurate as a tight but reasonable to load fit :idunno: :idunno:

 

[coloradoclyde]

There are a lot of factors that come into play but,
I am willing to sacrifice a little accuracy when hunting for the sake of easier loading.

 

[mooman76]

Like others said, try them both. Maybe they will shoot about the same so you opt for the .015 for easy loading or want the .018 for better accuracy. You might even like .018 for target and .015 for hunting and could turn out you need something different all together.

 

[matt denison]

Like others said, try them both. Maybe they will shoot about the same so you opt for the .015 for easy loading or want the .018 for better accuracy. You might even like .018 for target and .015 for hunting and could turn out you need something different all together.

Do that.

Patches are cheap, buy some of both thicknesses as long as you have to pay the shipping anyway. Next step will be to buy unlubed ones and try your own lube on them. For instance, I use spit. Next step is walking through the fabric store with our calipers looking for material that is juust right.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Like others said, try them both. Maybe they will shoot about the same so you opt for the .015 for easy loading or want the .018 for better accuracy. You might even like .018 for target and .015 for hunting and could turn out you need something different all together.

Do that.

Patches are cheap, buy some of both thicknesses as long as you have to pay the shipping anyway. Next step will be to buy unlubed ones and try your own lube on them. For instance, I use spit. Next step is walking through the fabric store with our calipers looking for material that is juust right.

BINGO! :thumbsup:

 

[Billnpatti]

The best patch thickness is just another thing that you will have to determine for yourself. It seems taht no two rifles will want the same ball/patch/lube/powder granulation/powder charge combination for maximum accuracy. It's just a try and see thing. Do not accept the thickness that is claimed on packaged patches. I don't even like to use packaged patches. The absolutely best way to buy your patch material is to go to a fabric store and ask to see some 100% cotton fabric. Don't worry about pattern or color because your gun doesn't care aboout such things. You just want a good tight weave and 100% cotton. You will need a micrometer to measure the thickness. The kind that is shaped like a "C" clamp. You don't need an expensive one. The ones that Sears or Harbor Freight sell are good enough. http://www.sears.com/skill-tech-1-...p-00940774000P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2 Before you go to the store, sit down with the instructions and learn how to read your micrometer. It isn't easy at first but keep the directions in front of you and keep trying and you will learn well enough to measure the thickness of material in the store. Take each piece of fabric on the roll and measure it's thickness. Write the thickness on the end of the paper tube that the fabric is rolled on. You will usually find what you are lookiing for if you measure pillow ticking, mattress ticking, thin 100% cotton denim and my favorite of all, 100% cotton drill (sometimes known as pocket drill because it is used to make pockets). Drill has a nice tight, very durable weave. When you have selected several different thicknesses, buy only a small amount of each to try out. Be sure that you have kept a record of the thickness of each sample of fabric so you will know what thickenss you are shooting. Remember, you have written the thickness on the end of each of the paper tubes and when you go back, you can pick out the exact tube that you cut your piece of fabric from. At that time, buy several yards and you will not have to worry about buying patches for that rifle again for a long, long time.

When you get your fabric home, wash it in the washing machine. If your wife has one of those small mesh bags for washing panty hose in, put your fabric in one of those and run it through the washing machine with some detergent but NO FABRIC SOFTNER. Fabric sotener will effect how well the fabric will absorb your patch lube. When it is dry, run an iron over it to smooth it out. Now cut a bunch of patches from each piece of fabric. Keep them separate. I like to put each thickness of patch into an empty plastic pill bottles and label the bottle. Now, go to the range and try five shots with each patch on a different target keeping all other factors, ball size, lube, powder charge, etc. exactly the same so you can see which patch your rifle prefers. Compare the groups and you will see what thickness patch material your rifle likes. Now you can go back to that store, find teh exact roll that your sample came from and buy several yards of that exact fabric.

Let me reveal another secret www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com. Buy a copy of Dutch's accuracy system. It is extremely valuable in showing you how to find the most accurate combination for your specific rifle in the least amount of time. He also shows you how to solve load problems by analyzing your target. It is only $20 and is worth much more than that. I have it, I believe in it and I use it. Can't make a higher recommendation than that. :thumbsup:

 

[PowderMonkey]

Billnpatty, i'm also doing that system. I got the papers last week and read it. I did not understand why you had to wash the material before using it, do you?

 

[mooman76]

They treat the material for storage so it last longer just like new clothes you buy. You don't want it burning in your barrel. I can't even stand to wear new cloths until they have been washed first.

 

[Billnpatti]

New fabrics have a starch-like substance called "sizing" that is applied at the mill. It keeps the fabric looking nice on the roll. The reason for removing it by washing is that it will affect the absorption of your patch lube. It also makes a difference in the thickness and compressability of the material. When the fabric has the sizing in it, it is "hard" and less compressable as you push it into your bore. Being less compressable, it will not seal around the ball as well. Once the sizing is washed out, the fabric will be softer (but do not use a fabric softener) and more compressable.

Dutch talks about measuring patch material in his "Black Powder Rifle Accuracy" system. I have a copy of the second edition and it is on page three. I will add to what he says by saying, there are two different measurements that you can make on your patch material. The first is the uncompressed thickness and the other is the compressed thickness. These two taken together give you a third measurement and that is the difference between the two measurements. This difference is the compressability of the fabric. The compressed measurement is the one to use for determining the thickness of your patch material. The greater the difference between the uncompressed measurement and the compressed measurement will indicate to you how good of a seal you will get from that particular fabric.

To make the uncompressed measurement, you hold your micromenter in your hand and place the fabric into it. Using the ratchet portion of the knob, turn the micrometer until it starts to click. Let it click three of four times to be sure it is seated on the fabric and then take your uncompressed measurement. Now, without removing the fabric from the micrometer, take the non-ratcheting part of the micrometer between your thumb asnd forefinger using just the tips of your fingers, tighten down on the knob until is is snugly closed on the fabric. Do not use a King Kong force on it because a micrometer is a delicate instrument and you can spring the jaws and damage it. Just snug with your fingertips is good. Take that reading and that is the compressed measurement. That is the real thickness of the fabric as far as your rifle is concerned. I use a material called "cotton drill". Some people call it "pocket drill". On the bolt, it measures about .015" thick. When washed, its uncompressed measurement is .018 and the compressed measurement is .010. That is a pretty good difference and it makes a darned good seal arouond my ball.

So that in a nutshell (okay, so it is a cocanut shell) is why you need to wash your fabric before using it for patching.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I use a material called "cotton drill". Some people call it "pocket drill". On the bolt, it measures about .015" thick. When washed, its uncompressed measurement is .018 and the compressed measurement is .010. That is a pretty good difference and it makes a darned good seal arouond my ball.

Not disputing you. But, in my experience, using the term "drill" by itself (yes, you qualified with the "pocket" bit) is very confusing. I have seen drill that was very weak, loose weave. At the other end I have seen it like thick heavy canvas. Really, I don't know what qualifies some materials to be classed as drill.

 

[PowderMonkey]

New fabrics have a starch-like substance called "sizing" that is applied at the mill. It keeps the fabric looking nice on the roll. The reason for removing it by washing is that it will affect the absorption of your patch lube. It also makes a difference in the thickness and compressability of the material. When the fabric has the sizing in it, it is "hard" and less compressable as you push it into your bore. Being less compressable, it will not seal around the ball as well. Once the sizing is washed out, the fabric will be softer (but do not use a fabric softener) and more compressable.

Dutch talks about measuring patch material in his "Black Powder Rifle Accuracy" system. I have a copy of the second edition and it is on page three. I will add to what he says by saying, there are two different measurements that you can make on your patch material. The first is the uncompressed thickness and the other is the compressed thickness. These two taken together give you a third measurement and that is the difference between the two measurements. This difference is the compressability of the fabric. The compressed measurement is the one to use for determining the thickness of your patch material. The greater the difference between the uncompressed measurement and the compressed measurement will indicate to you how good of a seal you will get from that particular fabric.

To make the uncompressed measurement, you hold your micromenter in your hand and place the fabric into it. Using the ratchet portion of the knob, turn the micrometer until it starts to click. Let it click three of four times to be sure it is seated on the fabric and then take your uncompressed measurement. Now, without removing the fabric from the micrometer, take the non-ratcheting part of the micrometer between your thumb asnd forefinger using just the tips of your fingers, tighten down on the knob until is is snugly closed on the fabric. Do not use a King Kong force on it because a micrometer is a delicate instrument and you can spring the jaws and damage it. Just snug with your fingertips is good. Take that reading and that is the compressed measurement. That is the real thickness of the fabric as far as your rifle is concerned. I use a material called "cotton drill". Some people call it "pocket drill". On the bolt, it measures about .015" thick. When washed, its uncompressed measurement is .018 and the compressed measurement is .010. That is a pretty good difference and it makes a darned good seal arouond my ball.

So that in a nutshell (okay, so it is a cocanut shell) is why you need to wash your fabric before using it for patching.

Thank you for the explanation, was wondering about that and this really helps.

 

[Dr5x]

To make the fabric look nice the manufacturers "Size" it.
By washing this sizing out of the fabric it can more easily absorb whatever lubricant you are using,

Dutch