1:48

[mississippi]

i have a 1:48 twist cva hawken should i shot round balls, conical or maxi's

 

[Don]

In my CVA rifles I have the best accuracy with patched balls. I have used conicals and gotten decent groups but I had to try a few different brands of conicals to find the one that shot the best. I ended up with CVA bullets. CVA has a bullet weight limit so check your manual. Have not tried sabots in my rifles.

Don

 

[Rebel]

The round ball. The 1-48" twist does fine with rd. balls, and you can do a lot more shooting with them for because they cost a whole lot less than conicals. The .50 cal with rd balls is plenty for deer sized game, and loaded down works well for small game.

 

[roundball]

Ditto

 

[Maynerd62411]

I have a CVA Hawken with 1:48 and I have had the same accuracy with PRB, Maxiball, and even sabots.About 2"-3" groups at 50 yds. :results:
I prefer PRB. It just seems right. :thumbsup:

 

[rayb]

Go ahead and shoot the roundball. my 54 does just fine, even won a blue ribbon when i was much younger and could see the targets. :crackup:


rayb

 

[RussB]

i have a 1:48 twist cva hawken should i shot round balls, conical or maxi's

It has often been said that the 1:48 is a "Jack of all trades, and the master of none"....well, for what it's worth, I have come to prefer the 1:48 over whatever is in first place. I decided that after going through a whole bunch of muzzleloaders, buying, selling, trading...going crazy looking for something "magic" in a twist rate. ::
I think with the "proper loading" a 1:48 will serve the average person very well, no matter which "bullet" he is using.
There are many round ball shooters, who REFUSE to shoot anything other than a round ball&patch, and the majority of them prefer a slower twist than 1:48...and they are probably right in doing so, at least if we are to believe what we read.
However, for those like myself who like to play around with other projectiles the 1:48 works just fine. And, it shoots the round ball & patch as well as most of us can hold, and it will do it at acceptable velocities for hunting.
Just my thoughts.
Russ

 

[Plains99]

I think that the 1:48" and 1:32" twists are credible for round ball, conical and lower powder charges for sabots in both 54 and 50 caliber. Both are very flexible twist rates.. however, when charges get much above 90 grains sabot accuracy is not as good as the faster twists.

 

[Slamfire]

My CVA shoot round balls very well, and the shorter conicals pretty good also. But anything near 300 grains weight is a disaster. ::

 

My vote goes for round ball as well. 48" IS actually a round ball twist. It's that modern company's want to turn out many barrels cheaply, (that increases their profits) so they button rifled the barrels instead of cut rifing them. Button rifling cannot give a deep groove, as the metal is merely pushed away from the 'lands' on the tungsten plug. This shallow rifling, typically .004" to .0045" requires a tight combination to hold the rifling and prevent stripping with patched round balls. We've found that with a ball only .005" under bore size, with a .018 patch, that good acuracy is available up to 100gr. of powder and more. Just this fall, a US hunter shot and killed a large Canadian Moose at a range of 170yds. using a stock TC in .54, with it's 48" twist, buttoned barrel. His load was 100gr. volume of Pyrodex and a .015 patch with a .535" ball weighing 230gr. The ball went through a rib, holed both lungs, through the centre of the heart, and was under the hide on the off-side. He had held on the top of the back. The moose walked 40yds. and fell dead.
: This hunter used patched round balls because " they're more authentic and they work".
; By all means, use patched round balls - they ARE more authentic, are very effective, cheaper to cast or buy and much more rewarding to shoot. The more you shoot, the better you'll become.

 

[RussB]

"My vote goes for round ball as well. 48" IS actually a round ball twist. It's that modern company's want to turn out many barrels cheaply, (that increases their profits) so they button rifled the barrels instead of cut rifing them."

Daryl....I don't see how anyone could argue that point, but they do. And I personally think the argument is based on the hype that the Marketing Guru's spout out so freely to the buying public.
We can not argue with the history books, but we do reserve the right to think for ourselves, and I'm sure the Hawken Bros. were also "thinking" when they turned out their first guns. But just what they were thinking will be the subject of debate for as long as muzzleloaders exists.
I don't believe the 1:48 came about in the Hawken because it was the only rifling machine available in St.Louis.

Russ

 

Absolutely, 48" is an excellent rifling twist for patched round balls, but I think it should be cut rifled. We did fairly well with our cheap buttoned barrels, back in the early 70's, but we used .020" patches and .495 balls to make certain the balls wouldn't strip - they didn't, right up to the mfgr's max and above. Yes - we loaded them with the standard 3/8" hickory rods, but good hickory rods, the factory one lasted not very long. Normally, on the range, we used steel rods to save the wooden ones. In those days we generally shot the same load for everything. I found what shot the best at 100yds., also shot the best at 25yds., so that's what I used. I didn't want to have a 25yd. charge in the barrel and be faced with a 100yd shot. Until we attended rendezvous, we didn't do any really close range shooting, as 50 or 60 yds. was plinking range for us.
: Why the Hawken bros picked 48" twists, I don't know. I do know, that in those days little was know about the whys and wherefores of the rates of twist and it wasn't until after their time, that a workable formulae was developed, based on the length & speed of the projectile.

 

[flaming canvas]

If you use round ball, regardless of twist, you will need to experiment with patch material, lube and powder charge. Each rifle is a law unto itself and will have distinct preferences. Two consecutive barrels may perform very differently with the same load.


My Renegade ,1:48,likes.535 ball and .018 pillow ticking. Groups just under an inch at 50 yards. In my Santa Fe this won't shoot under 4 inches, but if I use .015 patch the groups drop down to 3/4 inch. 1:60 twist in that one.


Both of these require a little "persuasion" to get the ball started. My experience has been that this is usually the case for accuracy, but there will be someone else with a rifle that shoots better with a patch and ball combo that you can push in with your thumb. You can figure on burning a couple of pounds of powder experimenting with different setups.

 

[Slamfire]

It may well be that the Hawkens didn't know much about twist rates, but the English sure had it figured out before the Civil War. Those Whitworths had a 1 in 20" twist so they could stabilize a looonnng bullet. Besides I think the 48" twist was standard for the 1961 Springfield. :imo:

 

[Charles/NM]

One of the fun aspects of shooting muzzle loaders are all the combinations of loads that you can experiment with. Try round balls and the different bullets available and see what you and your rifle prefer. I shoot round balls in my 1:48 rifle for fun with a felt wad under the patch to avoid burning the patch. I shoot 350 grain T/C Maxi Hunter bullets from Wal Mart for hunting mule deer.
Then there is the powder selection question........
Most important of all is to have fun shooting your rifle.