1" barrel.... just how far can you bore it?

[smoke-pole]

I recently gathered quiet a bit of info on the smooth bore guns in my so called journey to completely redo my .54 Renegade. Now here is my question, Is it possible to bore a factory 1" Renegade barrel to .12ga and actually get a lil choke in the barrel? Some may think I'm a bit overboard with this project but I am strictly die hard "old school" and I want several different barrels for my gun and just curious as to whether i can get me one a or have one made a .12ga barrel.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I doubt anyone would try it 0.729" bore in 1" barrel. That doesn't leave much wall around the threads at the breech.

 

[excess650]

If you're taling about reboring your factory barrel, remember the screw holes for the rear sight and under rib. I've heard of them being taken out to 20 bore.

I think that you'll find that oct/round barrel blanks for 12ga are at least 1-1/8" at the breech.

Green Mountain made up to .58 rifled in their 1" barrels.

 

[buttonbuck]

Bob Hoyt took a 56 smoothbore and made me a rifle in 62 cal 1/66 with deep grooves no problems

 

[BrownBear]

I have a 1" 62 caliber smoothie. I'd sure be interested if it could go to 69 cal (16 gauge), simply to cut down the weight. For me and my smoothbore uses (about 99% shot), a 1" octagon 62 cal is a club, it's so comparatively heavy.

 

[necchi]

I just spoke with Mr.Hoyt this past week about that very same thing.
Well, I actually asked him if he could turn a 1" 54cal Renegade into a 62 smoothy.
He said, "Usually", and he went on to explain that with TC barrels he has run into a problem with the tapped screw holes for the rear sight.

It seems TC sometimes runs those holes a bit deep and there can be a problem. He stated that he now always measures those hole before reaming and he wants to see no more than an 1/8" (.125) deep,,, and that's just to get a 62 out of a 1".

I asked about the rail screw holes, he said;
"Oh Ya, those too, but I've seen it most at the rear sight."

I also asked how big he can go with a 15/16" TC barrel and the answer was .54-.56,,

So thats the current word from the man his-self.

I'm in luck, I pulled all the stuff off the ole barrel I have and all the holes measured at or less than .125.
I'll wait till mid January to send it too him, shipping get's risky/nuts this time of year!!

There is the Toledo barrel made in 12ga for the Renegade, but that company either folded or stopped making them. The ones that are on there are going for near $300 now-a-days,,

 

[Dphar]

I recently gathered quiet a bit of info on the smooth bore guns in my so called journey to completely redo my .54 Renegade. Now here is my question, Is it possible to bore a factory 1" Renegade barrel to .12ga and actually get a lil choke in the barrel? Some may think I'm a bit overboard with this project but I am strictly die hard "old school" and I want several different barrels for my gun and just curious as to whether i can get me one a or have one made a .12ga barrel.


Thanks in advance.

You need to consider the BREECHPLUG so basically no the breech is too thin for breechplugs larger than 3/4".
You don't want a separation of the barrel near the breech face because the threads cut the barrel wall too thin and the whole assembly hits you in the forehead.
Is the plug 3/4 or 11/16"?
What is the tap drill size for the breech threads? A bore size slightly under tap drill size, so as to not risk damage to the threads, is your best bet.

Dan

 

[buttonbuck]

we must have had the same run of barrels because that is what I recall my measeurements being. I half considered asking if he could do a smooth bore with a choke tube out of a 50 cal 1" barrel.

 

[matt denison]

Rule of thumb is .200" barrel wall thickness at the breech.

1.00"
-.729"
.271

divide by 2 = .135" barrel wall thickness

 

[necchi]

Dan raises a good point too,
Zonie is our resident Mechanical Engineer and I remember a thread like this where he said the bore can't safely go bigger than the minor thread of the breech plug,
in TC's case that's .64>> something, :idunno:

buttonbuck;
I actually just found this rusted/neglected TC .54 barrel this summer at a vous`,, guy had a $40 tag on it, I offered $30 and I got it. I like the Partridge style sights on the Renegade,,
I did an "electrolosis" cleaning of the bore trying to slavage it, but it's pitted/gone too far, perfect candidate for reaming a smoothy for Rendezvous clay shootin,,

 

[bubba.50]

t/c new englander 12ga barrels are 1in diameter round barrels. don't know the actual bore diameter t/c used for'em. ya might could have a barrel made for yer renegade usin' quality components. maybe ya could at least get to 16ga or so. my opinion & worth what ya paid for it. luck & have a good'en, bubba.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

I have a 1" 62 caliber smoothie. I'd sure be interested if it could go to 69 cal (16 gauge), simply to cut down the weight. For me and my smoothbore uses (about 99% shot), a 1" octagon 62 cal is a club, it's so comparatively heavy.

I believe that a 69 caliber is a 14 gauge: is it not?

 

[CoyoteJoe]

If you were working with a one inch barrel blank, 12 gauge would be no problem but to rebore an existing Renegade which has an 11/16" breechplug, 20 gauge is about the max. At one time it was possible to buy imported 12 gauge barrels for the 15/16" T/C and Investarms rifles, I have no idea how they were breeched, I've never actually seen one, only heard about them.

 

[nkbj]

A set of dial calipers with the depth checker on the back end can give you adequately accurate readings down the screw holes to tell you how large the bore and depth of rifling can be made. Remember to give yourself a little extra leeway.

If .62 won't fit then .60 might be OK.

 

[buzz]

any one have any contact info for mr Hoyt
i like talk to him about boreing a barrel i have
might like to turn it into a smooth rifle

 

[M. De Land]

Why not just leave the exiting breech plug in place and open up the bore ahead to the new diameter safe limit, back to it's face? The new diameter could be tapered at the rear for cleaning ease and the full thread shear strength of the exiting breech plug would be compromised in no way. Don't bore all the way through, leave the existing breech plug threads.Just a thought.
I was thinking of 60 Colt chambers and their two diameter interiors as well as breech plugs with powder chambers which also amounts to a two diameter chamber. MD

 

[nkbj]

any one have any contact info for mr Hoyt
i like talk to him about boreing a barrel i have
might like to turn it into a smooth rifle

(717)642-6696
Discussed a job with him a couple days ago.
If he doesn't answer don't give up. Just call back. When he has a machine running it's hard for him to hear the phone.

 

[robertdale]

:nono: :nono: :nono:

 

[M. De Land]

I still don't understand why the diameter of the breech plug is even relevant to safety as long as the re-bore stays within safe barrel wall thickness limits. It has no more safety relevance than does the nipple in the back or on the side of the chamber area. If you bored clear back to the face of the breech plug and the barrel wall is adequate to the new bore diameter the smaller thread diameter is not compromised any more than before. Frankly I see no down side at all and no need to make a larger breech plug. MD

 

[jdkerstetter]

As a rule the breech plug face is wider than the bore size of the barrel. It was not always done this way, as removing breech plugs on original will show. They sometimes used bore sized plugs. Who knows what they were thinking or why they did it but the threads show they were sealed to a degree. In 100% of cases fouling is evident on the leading threads.

By modern standards this is no longer considered safe as the breech seal is created by the face of the breech plug being tight up against the shoulder in the breech end of the barrel.

The bore must seal and in threading operations there is a always a gap between the theads. A 100% fit could only be achieved by a machinest and is impractical for almost all applications and materials. You would likely not be able to remove a device installed with a 100% fit, if you could thread it in the first plug.

If there is no bottoming out of the breech plug face with the breech shoulder then there is no seal, the threads would not be fluid or air tight, there would be no way to clean the threaded area and corrosion will soon set in. Add to the equation modern substitute powders and you compound the corrosion problem and this is something our forefathers didn't have contend with.

Try this simple test. If you don't have a barrel laying around you can improvise with a steel pipe. Using standard Imperial tap and die set, tread the inside of one end. Make a matching steel plug or use threaded rod of the same size. Install the plug in the pipe. Stand the pipe on end and fill it with fluid. Wait for it to leak. Hint: Don't do it on the wife's favorite rug.

Enjoy, J.D.