1" barrel.... just how far can you bore it?

[M. De Land]

I can see a minor point about some fouling entering a tapered or loose thread on the plug face but as I said in my first post that not boring all the way back to the face and then leaving a taper for cleaning ease would still leave a shoulder for the plug face to butt up against.
Nipples in revolvers or nipple drums in barrels face exactly the same scenario of threads being exposed to pressure and fouling without trouble.
Threaded , side hammer drums aren't removed any more often then breech plugs and have far less purchase being in the barrel side wall and they don't corrode any more than does the breech plug.
Also, when barrels used to be routinely freshed out in many cases several times, making a .52- .53 caliber and larger out of what was originally.50 cal, the breech plugs, as far as I know, where never enlarged. Seems to me a solution in search of a problem. MD

 

[jdkerstetter]

M.D. Sure, tapering a the interior of a barrel could be done. But I was addressing your last post, where you indicated that you didn't understand why one couldn't/shouldn't use a breech plug that was under bore diamter. I was just explaining why things are as they are.

Tapering the bore would require special, custom made bits and reamers. It would be cost prohibitive if you could find somebody to do it. You could likely buy several new barrels for the cost. I wonder how it would effect shot patterns though. :hmm:

Nipples and drums seal on their shoulders, which happen to be on the outside of the gun and are vented, if necessary, through the nipple hole...and yes, they are subject to gas checking and fouling build up and have been known to come free of a gun.

As far as routinely freshening out barrels over and over again, I don't believe anybody knows how often the average rifle was refreshed historically, but we do know that barrels were routinely set back and rebreeched for various reasons.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[M. De Land]

Well, it's a nice theory JD but I see no reason to replace an existing plug if the threads are properly cut and seated. There will be no gas leak through or unusual corrosion. MD

 

[M. De Land]

On reaming,I buy or make both chamber and chucking reamers and use them quite often. Most reamers have either a pilot or a 45-60 degree centering angle on the face which would easily leave the cone angle at the breech face for the plug shoulder seat. No special tools or technique required.
I agree that optimally a breech plug should employ a shoulder, if it has a crush fit but I have removed them that did not make contact and were useless as a gas seal and only allowed fouling to accumulate at a 90 degree angle in the gap that was all but impossible to clean out without removal.
Also, when I thread a barrel or breech I use my lathe and seldom a plug tap so the threads can be fit to one another and when screwed in I like to use heavy grease or anti-seize compound to lube them. This will not only seal gas leaking very effectively it also helps check corrosion from water leaking into the threads while cleaning. MD

 

[jdkerstetter]

On reaming,I buy or make both chamber and chucking reamers and use them quite often. Most reamers have either a pilot or a 45-60 degree centering angle on the face which would easily leave the cone angle at the breech face for the plug shoulder seat. No special tools or technique required.

Yep, I'm very familiar with chamber reamers and indicated that such a reamer could be made in my previous post. To you they are not special tools, but to the average person they are. The average person who is not skilled in a machine shop is not going to know where to buy reamers, let alone make them. Didn't say it wouldn't work, just that I thought it impracticle.

I agree that optimally a breech plug should employ a shoulder, if it has a crush fit but I have removed them that did not make contact and were useless as a gas seal and only allowed fouling to accumulate at a 90 degree angle in the gap that was all but impossible to clean out without removal.

Yes, and I'm glad we agree about the crush fit. I do not doubt your findings upon unbreaching those barrels but contend that worse conditions can and have been found. Will corrosion set in every time? Will a substandard fit in the breech always result in gas leakage? No. Is it possible?

Also, when I thread a barrel or breech I use my lathe and seldom a plug tap so the threads can be fit to one another and when screwed in I like to use heavy grease or anti-seize compound to lube them. This will not only seal gas leaking very effectively it also helps check corrosion from water leaking into the threads while cleaning. MD

This is the proper way to do it and I believe Getz, Rayl and others who make barrels and matching breech plugs and sell them installed do it the same way. I bet you always use a crush fit on the shoulder when breeching a muzzleloader too.

It seems we agree on the proper way to breech a barrel. Ideally a breech plug would be made to match a barrel and then a tighter thread engagement can be attained.

The problem arises when an individual buys a barrel unbreached and uses one of the many breech plugs made by another manufacture. The threads usually end up with a very low tolerance fit.

In the subject barrel, in which the patent breech was not fit by a machinest but some factory worker after he had pulled it from a bin full of simular, probably cast, breeches, we are to trust that the thread fit is fine and shouldn't worry about having a shoulder to seat against. Maybe I missunderstood your previous post.

As I said, originals didn't always have a shoulder either. But that doesn't make it proper or accepted today.

You are the only person I have ever heard condoning leaving a breech plug without a shoulder, perhaps the others have just remained silent. Again, maybe I just missunderstood you.

Thanks for the friendly debate. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[M. De Land]

I enjoy the discourse myself as it makes me think out side the box and I always pick up good ideas from other folks while doing so.I like the challenge to my thinking to test it against and if it can't stand than let it be replaced with better ideas.
As I said and we both agree optimally a crush fit and shoulder would be the way I would do it but understanding that a properly threaded breech plug with a thread length at least the cross diameter of the plug affords much more strength from blow out than does the much thinner chamber side wall and as a properly fit thread will not leak gas nor corrode anymore than other parts to the chamber area it just doesn't seem practical to me to replace it especially when a taper can be made at the rear maintaining the shoulder.
If one has a patten breech then I think this method would be even more appealing for a boring out job. MD

 

[jdkerstetter]

It appears that you know what you are talking about and I will not question what you choose to do when you feel it safe and sound.

I may have been a bit over zealous in my arguement as sometimes, I feel, we have to use caution what is shared in an open forum as some people reading it may not know all that is involved and are not qualified to make proper, safe decisions. I would not like to see anybody injured doing something they think is acceptable based on a loose understanding of what they read and don't know what all is involved.

I too enjoyed the discussion. Good night, J.D.