100 yd Shooting

[HuntAway]

Hello All,

I have really decent groups with my .54 GPR flintlock at 50 yds but when I move out to a 100 they open up quite a bit. I can 2" @ 50 yds off the bench but at a 100 I'm looking at 6-8" pie plate groups.

I'm thinking it is mostly me that's the issue. Old eye's and inconsistent POA. I've tried big bulls 5-6" and small ones 1-2" which are really hard to see at 100. Diamonds, squares, half circles and full circles target types.

Does anyone have any tricks or tips for 100 yd shooting? I have no intention of hunting at that range. All of my stands are 40 or less yds at the most. It's mostly to embarass the AR guys on the range. :blah:

My rifle has the stock blade front sight and I use a 57SML peep on the rear with the fine peep in. Using .018 bluestripe pillow tick, bear grease lube, .535 ball (tight fit), 100 gr 2f Goex with 4f prime.

I use the same setup with my GPH caplock and can manage 3-4" groups with it using sabotted bullets.

Thanks,

HA

 

[don hepler]

Check the wind, round balls drift a lot between 50 and 100 yards. You'll lose 1/3 of your velocity, between 50 and 100 yds.. In a 5-10 mph. wind, the ball could move 5 to 10 inches, or more, depending on velocity. The tighter the group is a 50 the better you'll be at 100, if the wind is not a factor. You can find some round ball ballistic calculators on-line, by searching. Also, as you already mentioned, how good you can see. Can't compare, those unmentionable plastic things. The quicker the ball reaches the target, the less wind drift effect, so velocity is also a factor, in accuracy, but with 100 grain charge, your speed for a 54 should be good. I actually think you're using the right combination, sights, targets, load, and etc. Might just be wind or eyesight.

 

[coloradoclyde]

The wind at the muzzle has far more affect than the wind at the target.

 

[hanshi]

The smallest groups I've ever been able to fire at 100 yards were from just under to just over 4". And this was using a variety of shooting positions. No way can I duplicate those groups on demand. More common for me are pie plate groups.

 

[BrownBear]

Does anyone have any tricks or tips for 100 yd shooting?

Biggest for me was to change targets, get away from those round thingies everyone is always shooting at. Lotta other geezers like me on here that have come up with alternates. By going to an inverted triangle (i.e., point down) pushing down against a horizontal line, I was able to cut my group sizes almost in half. Barring a change of targets, I can always do better aiming at the 6 o'clock spot on a round target, rather than trying for a center hold.

 

[Semisane]

I'm with hanshi. I have three .54 round ball shooters, a peep sighted Great Plains flintlock, a 4X scope sighted TC Renegade caplock with a 1:70 twist Green mountain barrel, and a the home built "Swamp Dragon" caplock with a 1:64" twist Douglas barrel and a 4x scope.

I can get consistent 1.5" groups with all three at 50 yards, and 2.5" groups at 75 yards. But the 100 yard groups open up to five or six inches.

I have no qualms over taking a broad side shot on a deer at 100 yards with any of the three so long as I have a good rest and the deer is not moving. If the conditions are not perfect, I pass on the shot.

 

[Danny Ross]

One of the things you can try if you want is file the sides of top edges of your front sight to make it narrower working toward something that looks like this /T\ as compared to |T| that you have now, on the top edge (the T representing the flat surface of the top of the sight). May help you take a finer bead. DANNY

 

[Don Steele]

Have you asked a buddy with good eyes and decent bench shooting skills to fire a few rounds and see how the groups compare with what you are getting...???
That might help you get a grip on how much of your problem might be YOU vs. the rifle/load combination.

 

[HuntAway]

No buddies around that shoot flintlocks unfortunately. I'm a bit of an oddity here Don Steele. After seeing how some of these guy's shoot with modern firearms I wouldn't hold to much of them even being on paper with a flinter. lol

The one kind of target I haven't tried is an inverted triangle. I'll print a few up and try them out. Thanks for that BrownBear.

The blade front sight could have some bearing too and filing it might be a good option. @ 100 it totally covers a 2" bull. So that might just be on the agenda as well. Thanks Danny Ross.

Hanshi, if I can get the groups down to 4" I would be a happy camper and to be honest I think that is very good shooting with peeps at that range. That goal that I am striving for.

Thanks all for your comments. I have a few new idea's to try out now. As always it will be one thing at a time. First up will be the inverted triangle target to see how that goes.

HA

 

[TMan51]

Does anyone have any tricks or tips for 100 yd shooting?

Biggest for me was to change targets, get away from those round thingies everyone is always shooting at.

That was my solution.

I try to get a aiming point that leaves a bit of image all around the front sight. My Hawken type rifles have a flat blade and 32" barrels. I use a 3" square or dot at 50yds, and a 6" aiming point at 100yds. It leaves just enough image around the front sight to be aiming at the middle. The larger dot at 100yds also means I'm holding a bit higher, somewhat compensating for drop. My groups at 100yds run about 4"-5", (using a stable rest, from a bench). Luck might pull off a smaller group, but not often.

 

[Richard Brinkman]

A lot of good replies here but I would like to add a few things. Since you are striving to punch holes in paper the most accuracy that you can achieve is the goal. To my way of thinking a 2 inch group at 50 yards isn't all that great OK for hunting but paper punching I would work on that and one thing that I have learned with shooting round balls at 50 and 100 yards a 2 inch group at 50 yards does not equal a 4 inch group at 100 yards. IF you can make it shoot a consistent one inch group at 50 yards then maybe a 3 or 4 inch group is more doable at 100 yds.

Find a target that suits your sighting equipment and eyes. As suggested you may have to work on the front sight and also I would check your rear sight for movement. I bet that you can wiggle the adjustable part of the sight around in the base if so try to remember to push it the same way just before you take your shot.

As mentioned above the wind can wreck havoc on a target even at 50 yards. Try setting up some wind flags even a surveyor's tape tied to a stick would help. You need at least three and four would be better the first one needs to be close to the muzzle within 5 to 10 yards. One out about 35 yds another at 50 or so and another out to 75 yards more or less. Remember that one at the 100 yards line really doesn't do you any good the ball is already there.

For myself I have never achieved really great accuracy with a grease type lube plain old spit is much better or a dry patching better yet. Some of the prepared bottled patch lubes are OK and I have made some that worked well too. One of the better ones for me has been Stumpy's Stump Juice and there are others too and then there is always Teflon pretty hard to beat for target shooting. And for really consistant shooting you will have to wipe between shots.

Good Luck and let us know how it works out for you.

RB

 

[jfaldo]

Another thing to consider is your peep sight is now above the plain of your barrel. So the further away the target is the more barrel cant will affect group size. This is why long range shooters use sights with bubble levels in them.

 

[Vaino]

After sighting in rifles for many years at our gun club's "deer sight-in clinic", a couple of things were observed w/ the many different shooters.

Most of the rifles were "scope" mounted and the standard 100 yd bullseye was sufficient...but when the occasional iron sighted rifle was used, the front bead or post completely covered the 100 yd bull. Suggested to the shooters that they "hold" at 6 o'clock w/ a tangent hold w/ the top of the bead or post below the bull. Doing this most of the time, greatly improved the groups. If the grouping was in the black approx. an inch or so, the rifle was good to go for whitetails.

Later on I had a couple of 200 yd targets stapled on the board and this enabled the front bead or post to be centered in the bull. This made the iron sight shooters much more confident.

The width of a post isn't critical for accuracy, but the "daylight " on both sides of the post when aiming, is. My very accurate squirrel LR has a .100 wide front blade w/ plenty of daylight on both sides and has head hit many 100s of squirrels.

Won't get into all the hold and setup variations when shooting from a bench that will yield larger groups, but when shooting one must be comfortable in a more upright position.....scrunched down over the comb isn't conducive to good groups......Fred

 

[Walks with fire]

The trick I use is to always shoot to the top of the sight. Hold the bead just peeking into the notch at 25 yards; a little higher at 50 yards; at 100 yards hold up a little more post into the notch and beyond 100 a little more post with the bead riding higher.

With this method your always shooting to hit the top of the bead and your never holding over at longer ranges but instead your holding up more of the blade in the rear sight but always hitting at the top of the sight.

Use the same method with any open sighted gun. It's the only way to hit at long ranges with a handgun. It's a simple method to use once it's practiced a little; you just need to learn how much post to hold up at each range with the load your using. Get you most accurate load figured out and then learn how much post to hold up at the various yardages. The higher the post on your front sight the better but if your front sight has a low or short post (some just have a bead right on the barrel) then it won't work.

I hear of some people that dislike the TC sights but they work extremely well with this method. I am not sure what type of front sight comes on a Lyman GP but it probably looks a lot like a revolver sight with a thick blade and you can do some fine shooting with that type of sight by using this method. If your best groups are 2" at 50 then your load should be able to hold a 4" group at 100 yards with no wind influence. If you got the 50 yard group down to 1 1/2" then you should be able to get 3" at 100 but that's considering no wind movement at all. A ball drifts a great deal in a 10 mile an hour wind. You can even make a thin serration on the post and paint fill it with white paint so you know how much sight to hold up at your longest range. Your still hitting to the top of the sight and your bead obscures none of your intended hit area.

The inverted triangle target is also a very good idea.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Fred is right on. Match smallbore target shooters often use a 1/3-1/3-1/3 ratio when it comes to white space around the bull with their globe peeps. This particularly for offhand. They'll dial it down a bit (adjustable front globe iris size or aperture) for prone. With a fixed width blade sight you don't have that option, though you could stick some electrical tape on the side of it to make it a wee bit thicker.

For fine target work, I like to use the narrowest post I can see without straining. For me, on a 44" barreled gun that's a blade .080" wide. On my 34" barreled gun that's .050" thick. High sights are easier to see than low ones too.

What are you doing with your eyewear? You might think about sticking a piece of electrical tape over your shooting eye with a 1/8" hole punched through it where you look to get your sight picture. That will help you get an increased depth of field.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I am in complete agreement with Fred and the Col. In addition, there is a post I made in the Photos forum called “New Tip Curtis Lehigh Rifle” in which I show a hundred yard target I shot with a note of one shot I made in which I missed a wind shift and that shot when well out of the group. Reading the wind for a hundred yard shot with a round ball can be as hard as a wind read at 600 yards with a modern rifle.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

I can shoot 3" groups with my 54 cal GPR on a calm day and when I am in good health for it.

Either shoot in the middle of a 12" target, or right under a small circle target.

I do better with a tan contrasted background than a bright white one.

Shade the front sigh if possible, the glare on the front blade makes the groups move toward the sun.

With offhand shooting, the wind pushing the barrel can cause as much problems as the wind pushing the projectile.

Clean any oil off the front sight. I wipe my down with rubing alocohol. Any dust in the rear sight will throw you off.

Focus on the front sight, not the target. A blurry front sight will throw a group off 4 inches easily. A blurry target will throw you off a 1/4 ro 1/2 inch.

Look up the marines term BRASS.

This book is pretty helpful for building shooting skills.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-9/

 

[HuntAway]

Thank you for that link fools sulphur. Wouldn't happen to have one for the pistol would you?

I've always considered myself a pretty decent shot but there tips here that come from the wisdom of others. There is always room for improvement. I'll never be a Bisley champion but lessons garnered from others hard work and knowledge are free for the asking and only a fool would ignore sound advice.

I thank you all for your insight. The trick is to try and put it all into practice. One thing I learned a long time ago is to only change one thing at a time. That way you are better able to control the variables.

HA

 

[Billnpatti]

When working on accuracy with a muzzleloading rifle, you can do no better than to get a copy of Dutch Schoultz' "Black Powder Rifle Accuracy". It is a collection of well written, concise instructions on how to wring maximum accuracy from any muzzleloading rifle. It is only $20 and will be the best spent money you will have ever spend on muzzleloading. Follow Dutch's instructions carefully and you will have your rifle shooting at its maximum capable accuracy in a much shorter time than it would take you on your own. Trust me, it is worth the money.
www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com

 

[ricklandes]

I find there are so many variables in POA, equal spacing on the left and right of the post, front post position in rear notch, etc...
I have opened my rear notch to let more light through on the left and right of the front sight. I had trouble before this in judging windage on any given shot.
I do think the greater range shows more of the inconsistencies in my loading too. A better patch, a more consistent load, etc all seem to make things work out better.
Somedays I tell my wife if we had to depend on my shooting we'd be vegetarians!