12 ga. double round ball

[1853enfield]

made it to the range today with my 12 ga.side by side made in india. shot .690 round ball at 25 yards. so far i am fairly happy. the right blr shoots right to point of aim at that distance and the left is about 4 inches low. I was shooting 1f goex felt wad over 70 gr. of powder and a patched ball. When i was a kid i read about hunting in africa with smooth bore 10 ga. and bigger but i figure i can see what i can do with a 12 ga. any ideas on how to get both blrs. to shoot to the same poing. it is probably close enough for most usage and i know it isnt a min. of angle gun but it sure is fun. 1853enfield

 

[Rifleman1776]

on how to get both blrs. to shoot to the same poing

Doing that is called 'regulating'. It involves test shots during the manufacturing process. After shots, the barrels are desoldered and realigned. This process may have to be repeated many-many times. Sometimes different loadings are reccomended for the separate barrels. This time and labor consuming process is part of what makes fine European doubles so expensive, especially with the double rifles. Essentially, once you know where they shoot, you have begun the learning process for how to 'kentucky' your shots for the same, or nearly the same, point of impact.
Hope that gun continues to serve you well.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Many times you can alter the point of impact by increasing or decreasing the powder load by as little as 5 grains of powder.
That way you can regulate your barrels.
Have great day!
Fred

 

When i was a kid i read about hunting in africa with smooth bore 10 ga. and bigger but i figure i can see what i can do with a 12 ga. .......

Back in the '50s an importer brought in a load of old tribal guns from Africa (muzzleloading single and double barrels). Turner Kirkland of Dixie Gun Works was a family friend that came north several times a year and stayed at our house. He contacted by dad to see about getting permission to have an "open air sale" at the school across the street from our house. His plan was to put out enough guns that him and my dad could deal on, when the tables got low on inventory I would bring more from our garage. Everyone of them were broken through the wrist area and crudly repaired (all wall hangers). Most were large bore guns.

At Cabelas one day an older black gentleman was in the Library walking around. One of the guys came back to my desk and told me I needed to go talk to these guys. This fellow was from Africa, as we talked I shared with him what I just told you. He laughted and said they loaded those type guns by the finger. Puzzled I ask "what does that mean"? "Two finger and the thumb would hold this amount of powder, three a little more and so on." they didn't use a measurer, with practice one would know how many fingers were needed for the animal they wanted to shoot. That's what he said and his friend agreeded???

If that is true I can see why all those old guns mentioned were broken.

 

[Britsmoothy]

You could file that left tube to steer the shot!

As you look at the muzzle gun correct way up, file the lower half of the crown a few thou and test again.

Do not enter the bore with any file, just remove metal at a right angle to the bore with file on (in your case) the lower half.

Remember though there is no guarentee a shot load will follow suit!

This is also a standard part of barrel regulating by top end makers!

Brits.

 

[damron]

You could file that left tube to steer the shot!

As you look at the muzzle gun correct way up, file the lower half of the crown a few thou and test again.

Do not enter the bore with any file, just remove metal at a right angle to the bore with file on (in your case) the lower half.

Remember though there is no guarentee a shot load will follow suit!

This is also a standard part of barrel regulating by top end makers!

Brits.

I was told this by my cast bullet shooting mentor years back and was laughed at when i repeated it to others.i am glad i see it was actually true.

George

 

[Rifleman1776]

Yer welcome to do it to YOUR guns. :shocked2:

 

[1853enfield]

thanks for the replys i think i will try tighter patches, adjusting the amount of powder, and maybe just using old fashioned kentucky windage. again thanks for replying 1853enfield

 

[Britsmoothy]

I was crow shooting today with an English sxs(Breech loader) and yep you can see it's been done to that too.

Brits.

 

[nkbj]

made it to the range today with my 12 ga.side by side made in india. shot .690 round ball at 25 yards. so far i am fairly happy. the right blr shoots right to point of aim at that distance and the left is about 4 inches low. I was shooting 1f goex felt wad over 70 gr. of powder and a patched ball. When i was a kid i read about hunting in africa with smooth bore 10 ga. and bigger but i figure i can see what i can do with a 12 ga. any ideas on how to get both blrs. to shoot to the same poing. it is probably close enough for most usage and i know it isnt a min. of angle gun but it sure is fun. 1853enfield

Sir, that sounds like a fine hog hunt back-up for the .62 flinter. I have a .683RB mold and should give it a try.

 

[damron]

Yer welcome to do it to YOUR guns. :shocked2:

i wouldn't have the guts to do it!

George

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Most of the "bore" guns used in the old glory days of African hunting were actually rifles, as in a 10 gauge rifle, 12 gauge rifle, 8 gauge rifle etc.

Some were smoothbore, but anybody with the sense God gave a goose would not go up against dangerous game with one. At least on purpose.

 

[paulvallandigham]

First, raise and lower your powder charge by 5 grain increments( volume) to see if that brings the left barrel up to POA. Also, always measure both bores with calipers to make sure they are the same diameter. It would not be a surprise if the left barrel is a bit larger. If it is, and its only a few thousandths of an inch, you might be able to to fix the problem using the same diameter lead round ball, but simply using a thicker patch in the left barrel.

As for filing the muzzle, what you are doing is using the gases that are pushing the ball out the muzzle to push it in another direction. You do that by draw filing the side of the muzzle at the attitude( think compass here) where the ball is presently striking( POI). Since the left barrel is striking 4 inches LOW, you would draw file a bit of metal off the bottom of the barrel, to let gases escape around the bottom of the PRB and push it upward.

It does not take the removal of much metal to change the POI only 4". This adjustment is usually always done at a range, so that you can file a few strokes, then test fire the gun to learn what if any change has occurred. You might draft a friend to help hold the UNLOADED shotgun against a bench while you file the few strokes.

Have someone watch those barrels as you shoot the gun to make sure you are not canting, or "dipping" the gun towards your face when you shoot that left barrel. Correcting a problem with your shooting form is much easier than removing metal.

And don't hesitate to ask another experienced shooter to shoot some groups with the gun before deciding that the barrel needs to be "regulated" to the right barrel. I assume that you are shooting the groups from a sturdy bench rest. :idunno: :hmm: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[1853enfield]

yes i am shooting from a steady bench with front rest and rear bag. as far as canting with just a single bead on the barrel it is hard to find a referecne point to make sure it isnt canted. i am not new to shooting and really work at holding the gun the same way every time and making sure i have the forend on the rest in the same place. i did have shooting buddy shoot it and his results were the same. 1853enfield

 

[paulvallandigham]

Then, if the gun has no rear sight, make a temporary one. Then shoot groups using your right eye, and shoulder, and then with your left eye and shoulder off the bench. That will eliminate any problems with shooting form as the cause of the different POI.

If the results remain the same, try adjusting the powder charge, and then the patch thickness.

For example: I saw a half inch upward change in POI in my 50 cal. rifle at 50 yards just by using a vegetable fiber wad between the powder and my PRB. The powder also burned more completely, indicating a rise in pressure and temperature, and an unknown(yet) increase in velocity. I will probably increase the thickness of my patch after doing more testing. I would prefer to NOT need that vegetable fiber wad when loading in the field.

The last thing to do is file the barrel. Just don't get any idea that you will file it so much that anyone will notice, looking at the muzzle, unless you point it out to them.

Just a thought: That HUGE, heavy, 12 ga. ball puts a lot of WHOMP on any wild game, from deer to Grizzly bear. I find it very difficult to think of any game I would shoot with your gun that would require a second ball so fast that I would load the second barrel with another ball " Just in case". The exception might be bear, and wild boar, as both have been known to charge hunters. But, for that reason, a 12 ga. smooth bore shotgun without a rear sight would NOT be my choice of firearms to take either species.

What I am thinking is, -- with that right barrel delivering its ball to your point of aim, what more do you want??? :hmm: Most hunters using a single barrel shotgun to hunt game that can send a large, lead ball to their point of aim would think they died and went to heaven!

I have filed the muzzle of a Dbl. shotgun (12 ga.) to regulate shot patterns, not RB. Its an old shotgun and family heirloom that had to have its barrels cut to remove a deep scratch from one of the barrels. The process of regulating the barrel to strike the same POA is the same for both shot loads, and for RBs.

However, you do need to decide if you want to use this gun exclusively for RBs, or only shot, or both. Regulating two barrels to send balls to the same POI does not guarantee that the same barrels will send shot patterns to the same POA. :hmm:

 

[Many Klatch]

I guess you could put a front and rear sight on each barrel, but it sounds like you are shooting about as good as it gets without getting technical. Putting both shots on a paper plate at 25 yards will drop most game on this continent.

Many Klatch