12G new Englander and steel shot-The TC owners manual rec'd load

[piper987]

Hey guys. I bought my .54 TC New Englander in 1992, just recently bought the 12G barrel. I should have bought it in the 90's for $100, it cost me $450 on eBay 3 weeks ago, but it is a 'never been shot' barrel. The 12G barrel has screw-in chokes. Serial number is either 60,xxx or 100,xxx, that is the two SN's on my barrels, can't remember which one is the SG barrel.

So looking at my 1992 TC instruction manual for the 12G barrel, it show steel shot loads using only wonder wads and no plastic shot cup. What do y'all think about this? This goes against everything I have been taught or learned. BUT, it is right there in plain view in the manual.

I bought some 12G steel shot cups, but had the grind them down to be able to load them easily. PITA.
Bought some bismuth, but very expensive. I duck hunt and want to use it with non-lead shot.

Just want to see what other have experienced.

Mike

 

[Britsmoothy]

I have not tested steel extensively yet but have shot a few duck with it out of a flintlock. Whilst it leaves a lot to be desired it certainly increases pellet count and has not damaged the barrel. It seems to be a bit of a myth I think.
I think because the pressures compared to nitro are so low it's not going to have the same effect on the barrel compared.

I've said it before but say you do get a few lines in the barrel from using it, so what.

 

[piper987]

I have not tested steel extensively yet but have shot a few duck with it out of a flintlock. Whilst it leaves a lot to be desired it certainly increases pellet count and has not damaged the barrel. It seems to be a bit of a myth I think.
I think because the pressures compared to nitro are so low it's not going to have the same effect on the barrel compared.

I've said it before but say you do get a few lines in the barrel from using it, so what.

I've said it before but say you do get a few lines in the barrel from using it, so what.

I totally agree on this, a long as t does not do damage that makes the barrel unusable, I really don't care.

 

[azmntman]

use bismuth...we owe it to the ducks. You could afford $450 for the barrel?

 

[piper987]

use bismuth...we owe it to the ducks. You could afford $450 for the barrel?

I actually thought about just going the Bismuth route and being done. It won't be my goto duck gun, I have just always wanted to shoot a duck with a BP ML. So I would use it a few times a year and that would be about it. The 12G plastic wads I bought (250) actually fit perfectly in my Brown Bess (11G), so I could use them for that and have a lifetime supply. Same thing, I want to shoot a duck with my Brown Bess just because I can, but may only use it once a year for duck hunting.

It really does kinda baffel me that the TC manual says nothing about steel shot and their barrels. It would be totally different if there was a sentence that said 'it it safe to shot steel in our barrels without the use of a plastic wad for reasons, X, Y, and Z'

 

[Britsmoothy]

I just buy a few expensive tm shot cartridges and cut the shot out of them.

I can not recommend using or spreading more plastic in the environment. It is also prone to melting in muzzloaders using black powder unless a separate fire wall is used.

 

[2 shots]

seems steel only becomes a problem in the larger shot sizes. there is lots of info if you google it.

 

[piper987]

I just buy a few expensive tm shot cartridges and cut the shot out of them.

I can not recommend using or spreading more plastic in the environment. It is also prone to melting in muzzloaders using black powder unless a separate fire wall is used.

I bought a few pounds of Bismuth from the lead supplier I use for my cast bullets. It just expensive, but is actually the best answer to the problem. I think for as much as I will hunt with it I will go that route. It is $20 a pound, with will give me about 16 shots per pound. Now that I break it down it is not so bad. Just expensive when compared to lead or steel shot per pound.

 

[jackpine54]

I have shot a lot of steel shot out of 2 different guns. I even used daisy BBs for geese in a pinch. One the bore remained perfect, couldn't even tell. The other had very light scratching that I could see, but not feel when checking with a long scribe. Now I mostly use bismuth. I get it from rotometals in 10 lb bags. It patterns more like lead and I think penetration is better on big ducks and honkers.

 

[piper987]

seems steel only becomes a problem in the larger shot sizes. there is lots of info if you google it.

The problem is there is really nothing out there in Google land that answers this question.

So looking at my 1992 TC instruction manual for the 12G barrel, it shows steel shot loads using only wonder wads and no plastic shot cup. What do y'all think about this? This goes against everything I have been taught or learned. BUT, it is right there in plain view in the manual.

I searched for awhile about what the manual stated and could come up with nothing. And also the TC manual said absolutly nothing about the size of the steel shot used, only the volume.

Bismuth is the easiest answer to the problem and will probably just go that route.

 

[piper987]

I have shot a lot of steel shot out of 2 different guns. I even used daisy BBs for geese in a pinch. One the bore remained perfect, couldn't even tell. The other had very light scratching that I could see, but not feel when checking with a long scribe. Now I mostly use bismuth. I get it from rotometals in 10 lb bags. It patterns more like lead and I think penetration is better on big ducks and honkers.

Rotometals is where I bought mine. I bought three of the sample one pound packs. I use them for my lead for my cast bullets. I think Bismuth is the best answer also.

 

[2 shots]

true forgot about the cup question. maybe you could try 16 ga cups [ might fit better ] with a 12 ga wad under them to seal the bore and an o.s. wad on top ????? i guess you will be using a full choke?

 

[piper987]

true forgot about the cup question. maybe you could try 16 ga cups [ might fit better ] with a 12 ga wad under them to seal the bore and an o.s. wad on top ????? i guess you will be using a full choke?

I thought about the 16G cups also, but honestly after some conversation here, Bismuth is the best answer since the volume of shooting will be low. It is expensive, but I won't be shooting a lot of it so it just makes the most sense.

 

[2 shots]

piper , i use bismuth also, guess it wasnt around when t/c wrote the manual. bismuth is much better than steel . also do you know about wonder wads? i use them i my 12 ga. n.e. with chokes.

 

[piper987]

piper , i use bismuth also, guess it wasnt around when t/c wrote the manual. bismuth is much better than steel . also do you know about wonder wads? i use them i my 12 ga. n.e. with chokes.

Yes i have been using wonder wads for a long time. In 1996 I bought a Pedersoli 20G D-Barrel through Cabelas. Use WW in it and also in my .56 Renegade. When I bought the d-barrel I kinda did not have a need for the 12G barrel for the New Englander, but always wanted it. So I finally broke down and bought one.

Recently I bought some bulk felt and a .625 punch and started making my own wads. Did that for my Brown Bess also. Much cheaper and don't have to worry if they are in stock anymore.

 

[SOLANCO]

"So looking at my 1992 TC instruction manual for the 12G barrel, it show steel shot loads using only wonder wads and no plastic shot cup." 1992 Was the year you had to stop using lead. In 1992 everyone, including TC, was on the uphill side of the learning curve on steel, etc. That manual may reflect that.
I am curious as to whether anyone has suffered deterioration of chokes with steel?

 

[piper987]

"So looking at my 1992 TC instruction manual for the 12G barrel, it show steel shot loads using only wonder wads and no plastic shot cup." 1992 Was the year you had to stop using lead. In 1992 everyone, including TC, was on the uphill side of the learning curve on steel, etc. That manual may reflect that.
I am curious as to whether anyone has suffered deterioration of chokes with steel?

I was thinking the same thing. I think 1989 was the year Louisiana went to steel shot only. Boy was that a learning curve for the industry and hunters. Maybe it was just lack of knwoledge at the time for TC?

 

[Historian]

I actually thought about just going the Bismuth route and being done. It won't be my goto duck gun, I have just always wanted to shoot a duck with a BP ML. So I would use it a few times a year and that would be about it. The 12G plastic wads I bought (250) actually fit perfectly in my Brown Bess (11G), so I could use them for that and have a lifetime supply. Same thing, I want to shoot a duck with my Brown Bess just because I can, but may only use it once a year for duck hunting.

It really does kinda baffel me that the TC manual says nothing about steel shot and their barrels. It would be totally different if there was a sentence that said 'it it safe to shot steel in our barrels without the use of a plastic wad for reasons, X, Y, and Z'

Listen, I normally do not do this because I generally do not sale to the public however I will sell you some bismuth#4 shot. I make my own bismuth shot as I am predominantly a bird and small game hunter and non toxic is required. Please PM me to discuss if you are interested. Steel will work in the short-term but leaves alot to be desired ballistically.

 

[piper987]

Listen, I normally do not do this because I generally do not sale to the public however I will sell you some bismuth#4 shot. I make my own bismuth shot as I am predominantly a bird and small game hunter and non toxic is required. Please PM me to discuss if you are interested. Steel will work in the short-term but leaves alot to be desired ballistically.

I'm good, I bought three pounds not that long ago and the duck season is coming to an end for me soon. Next year I will buy a 10 pound jug from Rotometals and that will be a ten year supply for me. I do appreciate the offer though.

 

[jackpine54]

I'm good, I bought three pounds not that long ago and the duck season is coming to an end for me soon. Next year I will buy a 10 pound jug from Rotometals and that will be a ten year supply for me. I do appreciate the offer though.

They used to offer a #3 & #5 mix. I never tried it but sounds like it should work for ducks. We use #1 for geese #3 for ducks. I'd load #5 for woodies and teal, but just use the 3s because we usually see mallards and black ducks at the same time. Good luck!