1792 Contract Rifle in Original Flintlock

[kansas_volunteer]

Very nice rifle. Did you consider having the sling swivels fitted? I really must get this LC Smith shotgun build done and written up since I have my own L & C short rifle design firmly committed to memory now. Thanks so much to everyone who is having input, I am learning an additional thing or two about these rifles, and the "picture in my mind" of what to look for in a possible original is clearing up a lot.

4575wcf, the above quote was taken from the other 1792 thread. What is your idea of a L&C short rifle?

 

[4575wcf]

My version of an authentic L & C short rifle would be thus.

A full octagonal 33 inch swamped barrel averaging about 1 inch ATF bored to .530 to take a .52 ball. An unmarked HF 1803/Contract rifle lock built from parts with Log Cabin's 1 3/8 throw single throated **** casting subbed. Stocked in strong, plain maple with a similar patchbox, patchbox release, buttplate, and triggerguard to the 1803, but a bit earlier and favoring York County. An M1795 musket swivel pinned through the stock, with the shank extending through a escutcheon inletted into the stock bottom just beneath the front of the patchbox. A Jaeger style front swivel loop pinned through an additional barrel lug in the forend. A 7/16 wooden trumpet shaped ramrod in suitable thimbles, with the usual nosecap of the rifle fitted 2 1/2 inches or so behind the muzzle to accommodate the swelled 1/2 inch forward section of the ramrod. Guess that about does it, rifled for round ball, but if we are gonna shoot any grizzleys is it okay if I load a conical?

 

[4575wcf]

Cruzatte was a poor shot.

I always read Sergeant Ordway's version of a day's events whenever he journaled. Ordway was one of the best educated of the members (you KNOW he took some crap being the "smart kid"--Colter threatened to shoot him). His version of the day Lewis got shot was that Cruzatte had two elk down to Lewis's one. Pierre may well have been off out of earshot trying to get a follow up shot after he pegged Lewis. He did have only one eye, and the other apparently was nothing to write home about. Notice he did not run right up to Lewis, who was still locked and loaded and say "Sorry boss but your big bottom looked just like an elk" Smart man.

 

[4575wcf]

Oh, one more detail on the L & C short rifle I forgot. I would profile the 1803 lockplate to match the one on the #15 Harpers Ferry rifle, since I feel that lockplate shape would more closely represent a pre-production lock.

 

[Einsiedler]

I just wanted a typical as you could get contract rifle. Nothing fancy. Not a Corps of Discovery rifle. Nothing famous. Just typical (if there is such a thing).

 

[kansas_volunteer]

I'd also like a representative 1792 rifle, based on what we now know about them. I have the parts together now to build a rifle inspired by the 1792, but not a faithful copy. As the 1792 was essentially a base model hunting rifle that's what I'll be calling mine. It will have a fairly plain Pecatonica cm 2 Lancaster stock, but a 7/8ths 45 caliber barrel, not a swamped 50. Someday maybe I'll build a faithful copy of the 1792, but right now I'm working with what I already have.

 

[4575wcf]

I have several barrels on hand to make a start. Probably the three most.interesting are TC barrels given to me by my neighbor. One .45, one .50 and one .50 (Green Mountain?) drop in replacement barrel. All three are ruined by rust and.poor storage, but hey I COULD get off my bottom and fresh.them out. The replacement barrel even has a round ball twist going in.

 

[4575wcf]

You jokers got me going again. I ran out to the shop and dug those barrels out of mothballs to get a look at them again. As usual, my memory, my once trusted bestest friend ever, is screwing with me again. They are a .50, a .50 and a .54, otherwise they are as I reported them.

Bachelor #1 is a .50 caliber 15/16" barrel right off a Thompson Center Hawken as they came out. It has the best bore of the bunch, I think a long evening spent with toothpaste and a soft brass brush would have a shootable shine on the bore with enough elbow grease. It has no breechplug, so impossible to tell if it was flint or percussion, the rib is present with one thimble, the ramrod retaining spring, and all the screws, but one screw is doctored. I do not have a .50 caliber minie mold, but such a bullet should shoot like gangbusters in the 1-48 twist shallow grooves. The barrel has merit for a 28" hunting rifle build.

.
Bachelor #2 is also a .50 caliber 15/16" barrel right off a Thompson Center Hawken as they came out. It has a somewhat rougher bore, I do not think toothpaste is going to bring this one back, but perhaps a fire lapping session might. I also has no breechplug, impossible to tell if it was flint or percussion, the rib is present with the ramrod retaining spring, the thimbles and screws are missing, one barrel underlug is present. Somebody cut a dovetail for a rear sight through the front rear sight screw hole, but not TOO deep and wide, a clean up on the dovetail for a nice sight, plug the first hole, and good to go. This barrel also has merit for a 28" hunting rifle build, but more work would be required to bring it back.



And Bachelor #3. This is a Green Mountain (unless somebody else made them) unmarked near as I can tell, .54 caliber round ball drop in barrel for a TC Hawken, 32 inches long rifled for round ball, with the front sight remaining (rough). The bore condition I would call freckled. It has bright areas, and it has light pitted areas. I think it a perfect candidate for a freshening to about .55 to 56 caliber. Also 15/16 (drat!). TC always put the flintlock flash hole through the breech plug on flintlock models to preserve the patent breech, I see nothing really wrong with that idea other than the resulting longer flash channel, and absolutely not original, at least until Joe Manton, Durs Egg, and others started fine tuning the double barrel flintlock shotguns. A proper aperture shaped touch hole liner would fix any lags in the ignition I would think, same as it did in the shotguns. This barrel could be freshed out, fitted with a longer patent plug to get the prerequisite 33" barrel, a few rib holes TIGed up, slightly swamped and could be turned into a likely candidate for my build.

 

[ekettenburg]

If the rifles were made in part by chopping 1792/1794 rifles, all of which would have originally had longer barrels with some degree of muzzle flare (they would not have been straight/parallel sided barrels), the muzzle flare would have been removed and so the shorter rifles would have evidenced a typical concave taper of some degree from the breech down to what originally would have been a 'waist' portion of pretty much all American tapered/flared barrels. This would have necessitated a higher than typical front sight.

 

[4575wcf]

You sir are absolutely correct, and two--count them--two rifles burst at the muzzle during the expedition and were shortened further by John Shields. Since my repro would have no chance to be mistaken for a fake, I would retain the correct swamped profile in the name of strength and safety.

 

[Cpt Flint]

Why not just order a new Rice barrel?

 

[4575wcf]

Well shoot. Anybody can order a new Rice barrel. I like making do, and I have a small truckload of inventory lying around. I am recently semi retired, soon to be fully retired with nothing much to do except work on my little farm, work in my sizeable shop, put in a new septic system, build a new house, and chase the Mrs. around. If I die it will take the mortician a full shift to get the smile off my face. Besides that I always wanted to try freshing a muzzle loader out.

 

[excess650]

Did the 1792 Contract rifles have single triggers or DST?

I ask because I've run across a couple of photos, lock-buttplate, both sides, of a Peter Gonter with 2 piece patchbox, and no carving.

 

[4575wcf]

All single trigger as far as can be determined. The original description called for a fly in the tumbler, it is thought the contractors largely ignored that feature because it is unnecessary for a single trigger gun, The government was paying $12 per rifle, and the contractors would have left off the bells and whistles to come in under bid.

 

[kansas_volunteer]

The contract rifles did have a single trigger. They were military rifles. They cost the Army 12 bucks each at a time when rifles with double sets, carving and engraving were going for 35 or 40 dollars.

 

[4575wcf]

My local library came through with the first of published books on Lancaster and York County Gunsmiths "Gunsmiths of Lancaster and York Counties, Pennsylvania" by James B. Whisker and Stacy B. C. Wood Jr. Hardcover, 225 pages the book was easy to get through in an evening. Not much new information on our Martin Fry, the book gives the exact same information from other sources, either quoting, or being quoted. Each of Martin Fry's partners Jacob Leather, Jacob Doll, and Henry Pickel have a separate biography and there is some additional information to be found there. Jacob Doll made the "pictured" list, and one of his rifles is covered with 6 plates. It is an unusual Kentucky rifle, shorter, with no patchbox, and no grip rail. Whisker and Wood list it as a "poacher's rifle". Outside of the Continent, I think poachers rifles did not exist, there was no need for them in America. Nobody had to poach on the King's property, when they could hike off and hunt elsewhere. I am not sure what the intended purpose for this rifle was, it has been converted to percussion but otherwise intact. The elusive 100 rifle order of 1804 shared by these four gunsmiths surfaces again here. This time Doll has the option to make 100 brass mounted rifles, or 100 rifles with silver stars for the government, and they probably filled one contract or the other. Jacob Leather is active in the contract musket business, Henry Pickel is active in the later $10 per rifle contract rifle time frame. Pickle and Leather had shops across the street from one another.