1842 Rifled Musket

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Does anyone have one of these rifled .69 early minie ball shooters? Thoughts? Comments? Opinions? I have just finished a memoir in which the writer said that in North Texas in the 1850's, the 1842 rifled musket shooting Minie's was more accurate than .54 Mississippi rifles shooting Minies. Apparently the rifling on the Mississippi was made for roundball and didn't like Minie's. Thanks for any info.

 

[varsity07840]

I shoot 3 rifled .69s. An original 1842 full length, an original '42 shortened to 26" barrel length similar to a Confederate Macon conversion and a original 1816 flint with a new Whitacre barrel.They're all great shooters. The 1842s have Hoyt relines. All three shoot the Rapine semi wadcutter minie very well. I've never tried the original style. Too much wear and tear on an old gun and an old shooter. The Whitacre barrel shoots PRBs just as well as minies and to the same point of impact with the same charge. They all have progressive depth rifling. It's interesting to note that when the then new .58 minie was tested against the .69, the .69 proved more accurate. The .58 was chosen because of less recoil and less weight of ammunition carried. The 1841 in .54 cal may not have been as accurate with minies for the reason you stated. Constant depth deep grooves for PRBs. I believe they also had a faster rate of twist. Alot of them were rebored to progressive depth 3 groove .58 cal. My Whitney '41
is rebored and has the 2 leaf rear sight.

Duane

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Thank you! What was the original Minie load for the 1842?

 

[BillinOregon]

Wahka: I'd love to know what memoir you were reading.

 

[ken.clements]

please post lots of info....I'm thinking about getting one too...... :grin:

 

[varsity07840]

Thank you! What was the original Minie load for the 1842?

70 gr. of musket powder
730 gr .685 minie

Duane

 

[BEP]

Thank you! What was the original Minie load for the 1842?

70 gr. of musket powder
730 gr .685 minie

Duane

Good grief. Kills on one end; wounds on the other.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

That has to be a significantly more powerful load than the normal .58 Minie load.

 

[ken.clements]

That has to be a significantly more powerful load than the normal .58 Minie load.

not really. The military load for the .58 in the CW was 60 grains and around a 500 grain Minie (depends on the Minie). :idunno:

 

[ken.clements]

Isn't Rapine out of business? That means its going to be fun trying to find a Mould.
Is there anyone that makes a 1842 other than Armi Sport? If there isn't...dollars to doughnuts the standard Mould won't fit.

 

[poordevil]

I use the Lyman mould in mine.

 

[varsity07840]

Isn't Rapine out of business? That means its going to be fun trying to find a Mould.
Is there anyone that makes a 1842 other than Armi Sport? If there isn't...dollars to doughnuts the standard Mould won't fit.

Yes, Ray is out of business. You could advertise on the n-ssa forum www.n-ssa.org to try and find one. However you are correct that Armi 1842s tend to have oversize bores in which a .685 minie will be too small.
Ray did make his semi wadcutter in
.690 as well as .685, but the .690 will probably be very hard to find. It would be the way to go with an Armi IF the bore is oversize. No one else makes a '42. Your alternative would be to find an original smoothbore(rifled ones are hard to find)
with decent wood and furniture. If the bore is not too far gone you can have it relined. Hoyt gets around $150.00 for that. Or, you can get a new barrel from Whitacre. That will run around $355.00. For either, you'll need a rear sight and
then have the barrel prepped for it. Hoyt or Whitacre can do that. Whitacre also has the sight. They both use .687 bore sizes. For that matter, you could do the same thing utilizing a used Armi. As of two weeks ago there was a smoothie available on the n-ssa site.

Duane

 

[poordevil]

My Armi sport 1842 will not allow a .680 ball and pillow ticking to go down without a major effort, then only that one shot. Never measured the bore, but the lyman minnie shoots fine as it comes from the mold

 

[varsity07840]

My Armi sport 1842 will not allow a .680 ball and pillow ticking to go down without a major effort, then only that one shot. Never measured the bore, but the lyman minnie shoots fine as it comes from the mold

For sure, bores can vary. What diameter do you get from the Lyman as cast? My Whitacre and Hoyts have .687 bores which is what the originals(supposedly) were and for PRB I use a .672 ball and .018 ticking over a lubed 14 ga. fiber wad. It takes a real hard wrap with the starter to get it going, but then runs home pretty easily once it gets past the very shallow rifling at the muzzle. There's not much depth to take up the patch thickness. With a range rod I can get a number of shots before cleaning but it's a different story with the flimsy ramrod. I consider that the main drawback to PRBs in a musket. In your Armi, the rifling is a constant
shallow depth which makes the problem worse.

Duane

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Duane I know that this is a bit odd, but I'm wondering if I should give my hero in my novel...set in 1856...a rifled 1842 to shoot. In what context are you shooting it? What living history are you doing? What persona?

Also if I get a Whitacre or Hoyt .69 barrel, can I put it on a 1842 Armisport? Would you recommend a gunsmith to do this?

Thanks.

Pete

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Also would this rifled gun with the standard load work for bison and elk?

 

[nkbj]

My Armi sport 1842 will not allow a .680 ball and pillow ticking to go down without a major effort, then only that one shot. Never measured the bore, but the lyman minnie shoots fine as it comes from the mold

For sure, bores can vary. What diameter do you get from the Lyman as cast? My Whitacre and Hoyts have .687 bores which is what the originals(supposedly) were and for PRB I use a .672 ball and .018 ticking over a lubed 14 ga. fiber wad. It takes a real hard wrap with the starter to get it going, but then runs home pretty easily once it gets past the very shallow rifling at the muzzle. There's not much depth to take up the patch thickness. With a range rod I can get a number of shots before cleaning but it's a different story with the flimsy ramrod. I consider that the main drawback to PRBs in a musket. In your Armi, the rifling is a constant
shallow depth which makes the problem worse.

Duane

Mine is the Armisport "Fremont" 1847 version of the '42 with the 33" barrel. I too use the 14 gauge wad (soaked in melted LOOB) under the patched ball.
To make the standard mil spec steel ram rod work for cleaning I made a brass extension threaded on one end to fit on the rod threaded end and to fit the jag on the other.
That rifle is about the best excuse I ever saw to buy musket caps. Balanced, light weight, plumb handy. It would have to be a flintlock to be any better.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Could you please tell us more about the "Fremont" version of the Rifled Musket? Was it used by Fremont? Thanks.

 

[nkbj]

Fremont is supposed to have had a bunch of the 1842 model muskets made up for the "Fremont Expedition" out west with 33" barrels and sights to suit. I'm shaky on the history of the muskets and the expedition past that. There's bound to be a bunch of searchable info on line though.

 

[Zonie]

Duane I know that this is a bit odd, but I'm wondering if I should give my hero in my novel...set in 1856...a rifled 1842 to shoot....

Pete

If your readers are going to be pickers of fly feces, better move the time period to later or give your hero an inside line into the Harpers Ferry or Springfield armories.

Modifying the M1842 musket was done by both of those armories starting in 1856 thru 1859 for Military issue. (Flayderman's Guide,9th edition, p. 565) :grin: