1842 US Rifled Musket .69 caliber

[cayugad]

While looking at other rifles I came across a 1842 US Rifled Musket in .69 caliber. According to the information it has three groves and is 1:72 twist. This should really handle round ball very well with a twist like that as I see it. It also has a 40" barrel.

My questions are, has anyone had any experience with this cap lock? Also there is not a point in these really big bore rifles where a rifled twist will not really help stablize the roundball anymore is there? What I am getting at is I do not want another smoothbore, because I am not happy with the long range accuracy of the .62 smoothie I have. I was looking into a Bess but there again, it is a smoothie and my worries are long range round ball accuracy.

I am more then pleased with the accuracy of my GMB in .58 caliber and I thought how interesting it would be to throw something even bigger out there with the same kind of accuracy. Because of the rifled barrel a person should expect much better accuracy then a smoothbore of the same caliber, correct? I am curious what round ball size this thing would take and the weight... it must be a real stopper.

thanks

 

14 bore, or .69" is an excellent calibre for rifle. I had one in 66" twist and only wished for a double rifle with 1/4 turn in it's 24" barrels. As Forsyth said, even a 12foot twist gives good accuracy to 150yds. If further shooting is required, then a twist of 8'8" is sufficient.
; The nice thing about the slow twists, is that they shoot more accurately, the more powder you use.
: Incidently the model 1842 in .69 was the most accurate minnie rifle of the US army. The 730gr. minnie is only 1 1/2 calibres long and therefore shoots very well in that bore size with that twist.

 

[cayugad]

thanks Daryl ... this should shoot roundball real well also? I had not even thought of the minnie. How big is a round ball in this thing? This rifle is sounding more interesting every minute. I would think loaded with a round ball it would be an excellent big game stopper....

 

[Zonie]

A .69 cal rifle would use a .680 dia patched ball.
Dixie lists some .680 balls in their 2003 catalog for $19.95/100. I don't have a 2004 catalog so I don't know if they still have them or not.
I didn't see any round ball molds in this caliber but at $20/100, you could afford to have a custom mold made and still be money ahead after firing 400 rounds.

By the way, the ball weighs about 467 grains. :shocking:

 

[Ohio Joe]

Dixie still has them listed on page 275 in their 2004 catalog for the same price... They list the grain weight as 473?

I once ordered some cast bullets (.454, 190 grn) for my .44 1858 Remington Revolver from Dixie, and I was very disappointed in the quality of the cast. I melted them down into .445 Round balls for one of my rifle's. This was at least 10 years ago? Maybe their workmanship has gotten better???

I would agree that a custom mold is the way to go... :imo:

 

IF the dixie mould is that horrid looped handle thing, please don't get it. Those plyers moulds are of very poor quality compared to Tanner's moulds for a similar price. You can order a proper mould from Greg Tanner in England and have it in a week for $30.00 US including shipping or less for the smaller sizes. It is properly made, true round, perfectly indexed but doesn't have a sprue cutter. A pair of side-cutters, ground to cut a flat cut, will work perfectly and very quickly to cut the sprue off. They fit Lyman or RCBS mould handles. I just bought one of his moulds and I have since ordered another. He will make any size you want & ships the next day, to be paid by check or MO to an address in California.
: For the .69 musket, I'd get the .680 ball. For the rifle I had, with .012 thou rifling, I bought an Itialian copy of a Lyman mould in .684 and it cast a .685 ball- perfect for the deeper rifling I had. For the shallower rifling of the 1842, I'd probably prefer a slightly smaller ball. The moulds by Lyman, are just fine for a smooth .69, but too small for the .69 rifled musket.
: The .680 ball will allow you to use a .015 to .018 patch, I am certain. With lighter loads in the 2 1/2 to 3 drams, 2F range, WW balls may be used with .15 thou patches. also, I found paper ctgs. to be very accurate as well.
: Have fun- That's a nice gun to have. For a cap-lock, rifled musket, I cannot think of one I'd rather have.

 

[cayugad]

My understanding is the rifle is made by Armi Sports Inc. out of Italy. I can find very little information on the company. I will say I have read a number of sites where this is considered a favorite rifle. I have asked around and no one seems to have much information on the quality of the rifle they produce, only that do make a very exact copy of the orginal. I have sent some emails off to a person that handles them and molds for the minnies so we will see what kind of reply I get. This would be a fun rifle to hunt with. A little on the heavy side but oh well...

thanks for the replys. I would hope it shoots round ball well because that is what I would prefer to hunt with.

 

[smokeblower]

I have the smoothbore version of the rifle you are reviewing. I can not comment on the rifled versions accuracy. The overall construction is very close to the original. I compared my reproduction to an original owned by a friend and was impressed by the Armi-sport work. I took my limit this year on the gobblers with this gun and plan to use the "big thunder clapper" this year in the dove fields. I use a .690 Lee round ball mold with out a patch for solid shot and it is very accurate if I am consistant.

a shameless plug for my friend with the real guns.
www.shilohrelics.com

blowing smoke in West Tennessee

 

[cayugad]

smokeblower...

That's a nice sight. I thank you for the report of the rifle. They sound like a nice quality made musket rifle. I have a thing for some reason of favoring big bore rifles. I did consider getting a Bess but my I have a .62 smoothbore already. The .69 caliber is as close as I can get to the big caliber without going custom...

thanks again.

 

I thought we were talking about an original- my mistake. The rifling in that case, might be .003 to .005 the entire length of the barrel. It will still shoot RB just fine, due to the slow twist, but may lack the accuracy of the originals using minnie bullets. Lyman sells the proper minnie mould for this rifle - it casts a 730gr. hollow based bullet. The service charge was 70gr. of musket powder. I would assume with the lowered velocity we get from GOEX compared to English rifle powder, it, 2F GOEX is probably about the same as the better grade musket powder of the mid 1800's.
: I have seen pictures of these rifled muskets and the German Mauser of 1840 era, all in the German catolog, but didn't know of any being sold State/Side. They appear to be quality pieces.
; I am certain you will enjoy shooting this large borded rifle.

 

[cayugad]

Armi Sports Inc

That's the site I have been looking at. I have sent them another e-mail but they are not all that quick about answering.... I do want a round ball shooter. I really think a ball that big will do as much or more damage as that monster minnie could...

 

[Zonie]

Interesting that you mention the "monster minie".
My recient reading mentions that the rifled 1842 shooting a .69 cal minie was very accurate but the recoil was more than most people wanted to live with.
The Mississippi Rifle in .54 was not a accurate but the recoil was much better. That according to the author is why they settled on the .58 as the standard military caliber.
(of course the folks over across the pond were also going to guns around the .58 cal at that time.)

 

The .680 or .684 RB will smash both shoulders of a mature bull moose, using a 'proper' hunting load of around 6 drams. The pressure of this load is very low, probably in the 6,000LUP range.
: I would not trust the minnie on big game due to it's poor shape, but they were very accurate and at long range as well.
: Some of the rifled muskets, particularly the carbines, weighed around 6 or 7 lbs and that 730gr. fella would have kicked pretty good from them - for sure.